The Pastor\’s Pen

An Independent Baptist Preacher\’s Musings and Observations

ESV Popularity

Posted by Pastor Szekely on September 23, 2008

Have you noticed how the English Standard Version of the Bible [ESV] is being pushed and promoted? If you haven’t noticed, just watch:

 

Wow…I don’t know very much at all about her, but I see that Joni’s pretty excited about the ESV. She touts the “reliability” of the version AND also all the “Bible scholars and teachers” who’ve done such a great job…no wait, she said, “outstanding job“. Then she says if YOU want to understand God’s Word in a more deeper, profound, and principled way…THIS is THE BIBLE that will be your resource…what? We couldn’t know God’s Word in a deep, profound, and principled way BEFORE the ESV??? So Joni…is the ESV the ONLY VERSION you’ll hold to? Is she saying the ESV IS the WORD of GOD for the English-speaking people?

And then there’s John Piper. He says the ESV combines a kind of balance between accuracy, faithfulness, readibility, and dignity in an unusually good proportion. To John – “It’s a dream come true!” What were you believing, reading, and studying from before, John? Something that was insufficient…not as good…is that what John’s admitting?

I’M SORRY, BUT I’M NOT BUYING INTO THE HYPE!

It was the Evangelicals that tried to have us buy into the hype of the NASB and the NIV, oh but now, this ESV is “a dream come true”! How inconsistent!

This English Standard Version of the Bible is being proclaimed as the “best word-for-word translation” and the “best KJV substitute for reading from the pulpit.”¹ Isn’t THAT interesting…

The ESV popularity is being built upon comparing it with the Authorized Version, or KJV! Here’s more testimony to this: “The ESV could substitute almost transparently for the KJV when reading to the public, while the ESV also has the benefit of omitting KJV words, phrases, and even entire verses that clearly were not part of the original texts, as best represented in the United Bible Society’s (UBS) Hebrew and Greek texts.”²

I’ve got a real problem with this…why, you ask? Well, the ESV can’t take the place of the KJV since they haven’t even been translated from the same texts! That’s pretty simple. I believe the translators of the ESV when they say that their version is a “word-for-word translation” – they used the formal equivalence approach of translation just like the translators of the Authorized Version (KJV). BUT, they translated their New Testament from the codex Siniaticus [Aleph] and the codex Vaticanus [B]. The New Testament of the Authorized Version was translated from the Textus Receptus [TR].

Now you may or may not know much about the Greek texts, but just by this knowledge we know that the ESV, that’s supposed to be the best KJV substitute, was not even translated from the same text as the KJV! In fact, the ESV has been translated from the same sources as the NIV, NASB, and all the translations from the Westcott-Hort texts. The BIG difference between the ESV and these other Westcott-Hort texts – formal equivalence. Most of the others, and especially the newer versions, were translated through the dynamic equivalence method.

Don’t buy into the hype! The ESV is NOT a substitute for the KJV…it’s not a “newer version” of the KJV…it’s not even translated from the same text as the KJV! The popularity of the ESV is being proclaimed by comparing it with the KJV since the KJV is also a literal “word-for-word” translation. Remember, the texts from which they’ve come are totally different…

PASS ON THE HYPE AND STICK WITH THE TRUTH!

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58 Responses to “ESV Popularity”

  1. mssc54 said

    Maybe I can be considered a “sexist” but I never figured the Holy Spirit would speak in a woman’s voice like here.

    I think I will rely on the Holy Spirit to bring revelation instead of some “commercial.”

  2. mssc54 said

    Wow, I just noticed that this Piper fellow actually dreamed about this Bible being published. That’s amazing.

    I wonder what sort (if any) compensation these two received (or are receiving).

    hmmmmm

  3. G’day Mssc54…Thanks for your comments!

    Your first comment cracked me up! LOL! You’re right – she DID sound like a commercial!!! That’s a great way to put it. I watch it over and over, and I still can’t believe she’s acting the way she does.

    That second comment of yours most likely rings true, and I wonder as well…what was their compensation…

    Great points, and again, thanks for clicking in.

    Lord bless!

  4. Sis. Julie said

    Oh me!! That is so sad. You know…the world has been trying for years to find a “better” and “easier” to understand version to read. I say they are PERVERSIONS and there is only one Bible…the King James Bible and if a person possesses the Holy Spirit of God then they can and will understand it and glean from it. The problem with so many is they don’t possess the true author!! My daughter in law is taking college courses from a Christian college and they have all their references in their curriculum to the Amplified version of the Bible. She uses the King James Bible which makes it harder for her but I’m so thankful for young people who will take a stand for the only true version and is not willing to stray from it. May we all take a stand for the King James Bible and against all the other perversions.

    Thank you Bro. Szekely for your informative posts and being used of God in the way you are. You are such a blessing to so many!!

    • robert said

      I even had trouble understanding the KJV then i relized somthing I WAS NOT SAVED !!!! after Jesus gave me his gift I started to understand the word of God. thank you Lord that i didn’t get into perversions of these fake heathen bibles.

  5. Michael said

    May you all be as passionate (or better…more passionate) at sharing Christ as you are about what Bible you use. God bless.

  6. mssc54 said

    Just by way of clarification…

    I could really care less what “version” of Holy Scripture I am reading for it is not the author of that particular Bible that imparts wisdom but rather the Writer.

    I don’t condem other versions than the KJV. I don’t see any where in Holy Scripture where it says “Thou shalt only read the King James Version… unless of course you read the transcripts that are available before the Bible was converted into it’s current KJV “approval”.”

    I believe the Holy Spirit can use what evere means He feels most prudent for the individual. After all when we enter elementary school we don’t study calculus.

    When I was a child I read as a child.

  7. Great to hear from you, Sis Julie!

    I’ve noticed when it comes right down to it, folks must ask themselves WHY there are so many different English translations of the Bible. We believe the Authorized Version is the only version for the English-speaking people…why can’t others who do not hold to this position just come out and make a stand on ONE version?

    For what it’s worth, I’d respect a person more for that, right or wrong.

    Great hearing from you, sis! Thanks again for your comments, and

    LORD BLESS!

  8. G’day Michael,

    BTW: We are just as passionate for lost souls…notice:

    It is a RESCUE
    The Truth of Hell
    Who are You
    Which Way is It
    Sinner’s Prayer

    I’d say we are…see, we believe the Truth of the Word of God is paramount to salvation – “So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.” [Rom 10:17] This is why we tenaciously hold to, what we believe to be, the True Word of God in English.

    Don’t you believe God’s Word is vital to someone’s soul being saved [Rom 10:17]? Aren’t you just as passionate for the Bible as you are for lost souls?

    To us, they go hand-in-hand.

  9. Mssc54,

    No need to clarify. Just because I agreed with you on your comments didn’t mean we agreed on the Bible. Anyway, I didn’t get that. But thanks for your comments!

    So…do you believe that EVERY English translation IS the WORD OF GOD for us English-speaking people? Every one of them???

    I’d love to hear back from you on this ~ Lord bless!

  10. mssc54 said

    It is my (current) belief that our human (finite) minds can not begin to understand (completely) the ways of our Lord.

    It is also my (current) belief that if the Lord can use the Pharasees to teach life changing lessons then He can pretty much teach by any means HE chooses.

    Who am I to say that the American Standard is corrupted? Or any other version.

    I have heard these KJV “arguements” before and never could understand them.

    Perhaps Bibles are kind of like the Cathiolic Pope. Which ever one gets the most votes is the one currently accepted.

    I think I have three or four different versions but mostly use my Dakes KJV Study Bible.

    I do know, however, that when I first started cutting my “spiritual teeth” it was on one of those easy to read “study bibles”. I can not remember exactly which version it was.

    My point is that I recognise that there is only one way to the Father and that is through the Son. However, there may be many varied paths that (eventually) lead us to the Truth of the Savior.

    I am not willing to close any door that may be used. Too say that you can only read the KJV or you are not receiving Revelation Knowledge seems to limit what and how our Lord will work.

    But as I say, that is my (current) understanding and I am always open to His enlightening my life.

  11. G’day Mssc54!

    Thanks for your comments! I very much appreciate your honesty and forwardness on this.

    I’d like to quote you and respond to it…you said:

    1 – “It is my (current) belief that our human (finite) minds can not begin to understand (completely) the ways of our Lord.”

    –I agree with you in this sense:

    Isaiah 55:7-9, “Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon. [vs8] For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. [vs9] For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.”

    1 Cor 2:14, “But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.”

    You’re remarks agree with the Scriptures – Man, in his lost condition, cannot even begin to know God’s ways. In fact, the Bible tells us that to Man, God’s ways are foolishness unto him!

    BUT: 1 Cor 2:15-16 tells us, “But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. [vs16] For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.”

    A child of God will have the mind of God! This means that God’s children CAN know the ways of their Heavenly Father has put before them. I like to think of it in this way: “God gave us everything we need to know, although He didn’t give us everything HE knows [you know 🙂 ]” And what He’s given us to know…we CAN know – “Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth” [John 16:13].

    2 – “It is also my (current) belief that if the Lord can use the Pharasees to teach life changing lessons then He can pretty much teach by any means HE chooses.”

    –I totally agree that God can use corruptible material to teach and preach incorruptible Truth…but consider again what you’ve said. God used the Pharisees as an object lesson or examples to explain His Truth. He DID NOT hold up the Pharisees AS TRUTH. The Pharisees WERE NOT the STANDARD. God DID NOT have Pharisees teaching Truth. In fact, in many instances the Lord pointed out through the Pharisees the Truth of wrongdoing.

    And to your comment, God didn’t choose those “Pharisees” to teach His Truth. He didn’t hold them up and call THEM Truth. So, is there one Bible for us and many “Pharisees”, or has God dispensed His Truth to us in English through various forms, different renderings, and other meanings? As a parent, when I tell my children something, I like to think I say it one way, and that’s the way I mean.

    3 – “Who am I to say that the American Standard is corrupted? Or any other version.”

    –Does it not bother you that English Bibles are not all the same? And the reason is not time periods and language updates. Can we take God at His Word today, and if we can, which one is His Word? I mean, if He said it, didn’t He say it in one way? In some English translations, the Blood of Christ has been left out where it is in others; a salvation testimony was totally removed, but not in others; the Deity of Christ has been extracted or watered-down in places in some while it’s been untouched in others…Are all these English Bibles REALLY saying the same thing??? No…there’s a serious corruption going on.

    4 – “I am not willing to close any door that may be used. Too say that you can only read the KJV or you are not receiving Revelation Knowledge seems to limit what and how our Lord will work.”

    –Did you know that God limits Himself? He can only do that which His Word says. He is bound by His Word – He has chosen to work by His Word! That’s not irreverent, but it is stating that we have a Sovereign God who has Supreme will – and His Word is His Will. So why would God go outside His Word? And, why would God want us to go outside His Word?

    You see, I see it as God’s Word being our Foundation: Ephesians 2:19-20, “Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; [vs20] And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone”. That foundation of the apostles and prophets along with Christ our Corner Stone [the most important in the building] speaks of the DOCTRINE upon which we are built and rest! That doctrine IS God’s Word. We have to have it, and God won’t go outside of it.

    [Finally] “But as I say, that is my (current) understanding and I am always open to His enlightening my life.”

    –I’m very thankful you’ve written this. I want to be teachable, and it’s refreshing to hear this in the attitudes of others. If God would use me in your life it would be my blessing. If there’s anything else on this, please let me know. I pray to be a help to you.

    Lord bless!

  12. mssc54 said

    Maybe you can explain how it was that King James was the one who got the final say on his translation. What was he all about?

    I seem to remember some sort of “conflict.”

    I did have a very difficult season with God’s sovereignty in over the last nineteen monts or so.

    Perhaps you could wind your way through my blog and look up the three part series “Death at the front door.”

    God’s ways are certainly not my ways. I would have chosen a much smoother path for my young daughter and infant grandson.

    It took some committment and intentional persuit but I made it over the hill…. with His help and faithfulness.

  13. Kate said

    Why is it that Christians can believe that God did in fact create the universe and all that is in it – that He is omniscient, omnipresent, and omnipotent. However, they cannot believe that God can and did preserve His Word for the English language in the King James version? God preserved the Oracles in the Hebrew tongue for the Jews – is it any different?

    Man thrives on change – but God never changes! Good post, Pastor Mike!!!

  14. Michael said

    Quick thought…a new Christian ends up stranded on an island with someone who has never heard of Christ. Can this new Christian, who knows the basic truths of God and His plan of salvation, be used by God to lead this other person to Christ without a Bible? Is it His Truth we are dependant upon or does that Truth depend upon being spoken with certain specific words?

  15. G’day Mssc54!

    I’m not sure about the “conflict” you speak of with the King…sorry I can’t be more of a help on that to you.

    I will get over to your blog and look up your series you’ve recommended to me. Just a suggestion: maybe add a “search” to your blog for convenience. I’ve been there, and I believe it would be a help…but, just my opinion.

    Thanks again for clicking in!

  16. G’day Kate…and great point!!!

    If God is “GOD-ENOUGH” to save and keep them…then why isn’t God “GOD-ENOUGH” to not only inspire, but also to preserve His Precious and Holy Word for us to have in English?

    Like you – I believe He is “GOD-ENOUGH”!

    Thank you for your comments, Kate ~ Lord bless!

  17. G’day Michael!

    To your comment I say that SURE a person can lead another person to Christ without a Bible in-hand…

    What I don’t understand is your comment here – “Is it His Truth we are dependant upon or does that Truth depend upon being spoken with certain specific words?”

    I think I get what you’re saying…I think…but I’d say that we wouldn’t KNOW God’s Truth WITHOUT words – certain, specific words – HIS WORDS: “Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.” [John 17:17]

    As long as that person on the island is telling the Gospel, that person’s telling the TRUTH.

    Michael – can you tell me what is the Gospel? You just don’t know how many folks I’ve asked this and the many different and various answers I’ve gotten back!

    Let’s just say I wanted to give an example of the Gospel in action using the Ethiopian Eunich in Acts 8 OUT OF THE NIV. The way that version was translated [from what I believe was a corrupted text] I could very much make the point that the Eunich needed to be BAPTIZED in order for him to be saved. One little, subtle change [or ommission] of Acts 8:37 can essentially confuse or even change a whole doctrine.

    So you tell me – what “truth” is being preached out there on that island…

  18. mssc54 said

    Well…. as long as you’ve brought up “doctrine”. What is the official Baptist doctrin with regards fo the Holy Spirit? Is the Holy Spirit still active and working in our lives today? How about “speaking in tongues”?

    Is the Trinity the same today as back in Biblical times? Or has the Trinity changed in modern times?

    Also, what did Christians do who didn’t speak/read Hebrew or Greek before the Bible was translated?

  19. Briefly,

    #1 – “What did Christians do who didn’t speak/read Hebrew or Greek before the Bible was translated?” AND “How about “speaking in tongues”?”

    –Before the Word of God was completed, God used the gift of tongues for others to hear the Gospel IN THEIR OWN LANGUAGE. Tongues WAS NEVER “unknown jibberish”…I mean, someone had to understand it AND interpret it…and not the one speaking it! Tongues was a known language.

    –Tongues, along with prophesy and revelative knowledge, is no longer in operation because we now have God’s Full Revelation, or everything God wants US to know, in His Word: 1 Cor 13:8-10, “Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. [vs9] For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. [vs10] But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.” BTW: That word perfect means complete. God’s Word is complete – we have everything He wants us to have.

    #2 – The Holy Spirit is still active and working in our lives. He guides and influences us. He also never exalts Himself, but He always points to and glorifies Christ: John 16:13-14, “Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. [vs14] He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.”

  20. Michael said

    Before we chase your rabbit let’s catch mine. Again, I have NO problem with folks prefering KJV. I have NO problem with folks thinking it is the best. I have NO problem if they consider what the NIV did in removing scriptures is tampering with God’s word in a manner which brings about His judgement. I might stand beside them. I have NO if folks hate the nongender junk done to God’s word in the Revised. Hold up your KJV as an english standard of right translation. I may not agree but I won’t think less of you!

    My problem comes when folks say that ALL versions other than KJV are perversions by Satan himself to keep folks away from the One Way to God and that someone CANNOT come to a saving faith in Christ using anything but KJV. That is ridiculous to say that no english speaking person can ever come to God until he hears KJV words.

    Is that what you would say Michael or is this an extremist view that you would not agree with?

    To God be the glory.
    Michael

  21. I thought I was on your rabbit’s trail…that’s okay…let’s go hunting.

    You said, “My problem comes when folks say that ALL versions other than KJV are perversions by Satan himself to keep folks away from the One Way to God and that someone CANNOT come to a saving faith in Christ using anything but KJV.”

    What I’m saying is I’ll hold up any version that has been translated from the Hebrew Masoretic Text [Old Testament] and the Greek Textus Receptus [New Testament] and call it the preserved Word of God. I have a conviction that holds me to believing God’s inspired Word was preserved through the texts I’ve mentioned. So whatever English version comes from those texts and has been translated by the literal equivalence method, that’s the one for me.

    Now having said that, I’m convicted that any other version NOT translated from these texts ARE NOT God’s Word, but a corruption of God’s Word…a counterfeit, if you will. Would you take a counterfeit $100 bill? You know it’s not the real thing although it looks like the real thing and it might be passed off as a real $100 bill…but it’s counterfeit – a forged copy without the authority or right to be legal tender. I don’t want a counterfeit bible.

    You also said, “That is ridiculous to say that no english speaking person can ever come to God until he hears KJV words.” Did I say that??? I will say, “No english speaking person can ever come to God until he hears the words that can be found in the KJV”, since “faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God” [Rom 10:17].

    Finally, you asked, “Is that what you would say Michael or is this an extremist view that you would not agree with?” You and I probably differ on defining what is an extremist…Here’s what I view as extremist:

    –The KJV corrects the Hebrew and Greek – I don’t believe that.

    –The KJV is inspired – I don’t believe that. I believe it is a translation of the inspired, preserved Word of God, without error.

    –Someone cannot be born-again without a KJV – I don’t believe that. I believe even though other English translations imitate God’s Word and their corrupted and “a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump”, I still think folks are still getting saved without seeing a KJV. BUT just let me state: what they hear to bring them to Christ might be found in a particular corrupted version, but I believe what they will hear to bring them to Christ WILL BE FOUND in the Authorized Version [KJV].

    There…Did we kill your rabbit?

  22. Michael said

    My rabbit is dead and I find wonderful comfort in your words. Please consider tempering others that make comments on your blog which cross the above discussed lines.

    As for your rabbit…my plate is full tonight with family, tomorrow morning with a funeral, tomorrow evening and Saturday with a trip out of town. Of course, you and I know all too well that Sundays are the only days pastors work so I pray you will bear with me until Monday. God bless you and your services on Sunday. See you then.

  23. Thanks for replying, Michael…

    I know you’re busy, and may all be well with you during a most-likely stressful time.

    I look forward to catching up with you later ~ Lord bless!

  24. Gary Johnson said

    I had not even been paying attention that we had another new version hitting the markets again. I did a quick google search, and found the ESV online so I could check to see whether it agreed with the other new versions or the KJV. Of course it was 3 for 3 in going along with the modern versions, and I knew there was no more need to keep checking.

    Here are the three I quickly checked.
    Mark 1:2, prophets changed to Isaiah. It is obvious that those two words are not remotely close to being the same in a Greek text. And what Mark quotes in verse two is not found in Isaiah, but rather Malachi 3:1.
    Error #1

    Luke 2:33, Joseph is changed to father. Same comments concerning the words in a Greek text. Jesus Christ had no earthly father. Error #2

    Colossians 1:14, “through his blood” removed. Hebrews 9 tells us in verse 22, “and without shedding of blood is no remission.”
    Error #3

    That is just scratching the surface. I need a Bible I can put my complete faith in, not another corrupted, error filled, deceptive work of liberal scholarship.
    By the way, these same errors, as all of the new versions have, line up with the New World Translation of the JW’s. Most professing Christians are ignorant of the fact that if they don’t have a KJV, they have the equivalent of the JW bible.

    I had not checked in for awhile Bro. Szekely, keep up the good work.

  25. Thank you, Bro. Johnson, for your comments!!!

    The information you’ve given is incredible…and I really like what you’ve said: “I need a Bible I can put my complete faith in, not another corrupted, error filled, deceptive work of liberal scholarship.” ME TOO!

    Thanks for clicking over and checking in, Bro. J…it’s great hearing from you!

    Lord bless!

  26. Randy Talbot said

    Gary Johnson wrote:
    “Mark 1:2, prophets changed to Isaiah. It is obvious that those two words are not remotely close to being the same in a Greek text. And what Mark quotes in verse two is not found in Isaiah, but rather Malachi 3:1.
    Error #1”

    If it is quoting only “one” prophet why does the King James Version say “prophets” and not “prophet”? Is this a mistake from the King James translators where they should have said “prophet” instead of “prophets”?
    Thank you for pointing out this error in the King James Version of the Bible.
    Randy

  27. Randy,

    Nice try, but that’s not an error. That quote IS found in “the prophets“. Mark 1:2 just didn’t specify what particular Book of the prophets.

    Understand that to the Lord Jesus and the Hebrews, the Old Testament was divided in this way: The Law, The Prophets, and The Psalms. Even the Lord Jesus Himself makes mention of this in Luke 24:44, “And he [the Lord Jesus Christ] said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.”

    So the verse in Mark wasn’t specific as to what Book of the prophets the quote originated…that’s not an error. Nice try, but you are in error.

  28. Randy Talbot said

    Pastor Szekely
    Can you explain to me Matthew 2:5 which read “And they said unto him, In Bethlehem of Judaea: for thus it is written by the prophet,”

    Matthew 2:1-7 does not specify any particular Book of the prophets as above but does say “prophet” and not “prophets” as you say is the correct way to say it.

    If I am in error of what I wrote above, than the King James translators are in error in Matthew 2:5 when they wrote “prophet” instead of “prophets”. Don’t they know about what the Lord Jesus said in Luke 24:44, “And he [the Lord Jesus Christ] said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.”

    Thanks you for pointing out this mistake by the King James translators.
    Randy

  29. Again Randy…NOT A MISTAKE!

    Look at the context…something you’re failing to do:

    Mark 1:1-2, “The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God; [vs2] As it is written in the prophets, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.” – WORDS OF THE GOSPEL WRITER!

    Mat 2:4-5, “And when he had gathered all the chief priests and scribes of the people together, he demanded of them where Christ should be born. [vs5] And they said unto him, In Bethlehem of Judaea: for thus it is written by the prophet” – Vs5 RECORDS WORDS SPOKEN BY THE CHIEF PRIESTS AND SCRIBES!

    THE KING JAMES TRANSLATORS DID NOT GET THIS WRONG!

    Two things here:

    1] One could say the chief priests and scribes got it wrong. I don’t believe this is so, but the Bible, without error, does record the mistakes of people.

    2] Matt 2:4-5 records words from a DIFFERENT SOURCE! These chief priests and scribes were referring to the Scripture quote from “the prophet” who said it. That’s not an error! That would be like this following scenario: A person asks another, “Who says you can have guns?” To which that person answers, “The Constitution tells me I’m allowed to own my guns”. Then, the questioner asks another person, “Who says you can have guns?” This person says, “The 2nd Amendment tells me I’m allowed to own my guns”. WHO’S IN ERROR? Is it the Constitution or is it the 2nd Amendment? THEY’RE BOTH RIGHT! One comes from the reference of the Constitution, and the other comes from the reference of the 2nd Amendment…TWO REFERENCES FROM TWO DIFFERENT SOURCES, BUT THEY’RE BOTH RIGHT!

    Mark 1 are words recorded from the Gospel writer; Matthew 2 are words recorded from the chief priests and scribes. Mark 1 – words from the Gospel writer – refers to the Book of the prophets, and Matthew 2 – words from the chief priests and scribes – refers to “the prophet” who actually said it.

    TWO REFERENCES FROM TWO DIFFERENT SOURCES, BUT THEY’RE BOTH RIGHT – SO THAT’S NOT AN ERROR!
    The King James translators translated it correctly!

    I was going to say, “nice try”, but this is not even a nice try. Please, if you’re going to try to compare Scripture with Scripture for supposed error, at least look at the context first. That’s basic.

  30. More junk from apostate Christendom…

    It is interesting how the die-hard Calvinist Piper promotes this version. Is he so ecumenical that he is willing to accept anything – OR does the notes in this version present his Calvinism? Either way, that is a reason to avoid this version.

    We already have the perfect, inspired, inerrant, complete Word of God – why would anyone want to settle for anything less?

  31. AMEN MY BROTHER…AMEN!

  32. mssc54 said

    Forgive my lay-man’s question.

    Weren’t the bulk of the KJV translaters Calvinst’s? Wouldn’t that mean that the KJV would then be “slanted” toward the Calvinist doctrine?

    Regarding “Tongues” from earlier. I always fine it most interesting that the Baptist doctrine teaches against this. So God is the same yesterdaay, today and forever… except for this teaching.

    What about…

    Romans 8: 26In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groans that words cannot express. 27And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints in accordance with God’s will.

    I could post other verses about the Holy Spirit but…

    Well it has been my experience that most Pastors are unwilling to look past their church’s doctrinal teachings. After all, job security and all would be at risk.

    I’m glad that since I am not a “teacher” that I won’t be judged twice as hard!

    In closing. Jesus spoke only Aramaic or Hebrew right? So wouldn’t that make anything else “corrupt?”

  33. Randy Talbot said

    Pastor Szekely wrote:
    Mark 1 are words recorded from the Gospel writer; Matthew 2 are words recorded from the chief priests and scribes. Mark 1 – words from the Gospel writer – refers to the Book of the prophets, and Matthew 2 – words from the chief priests and scribes – refers to “the prophet” who actually said it.

    Please explain to me who is speaking in Matthew 2:14-15 if it is NOT the Gospel writer “When he arose, he took the young child and his mother by night, and departed into Egypt: And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.”?

    Personally I do not have a problem with the King James Version of the Bible I just have a problem with your explanations.

    For example, Mark 1:2-3 refers to two different prophets which is where we get the word “prophets” from (verse 2 from Malachi 3:1 and verse 3 from Isaiah 40:3).

    My question to you is where in Malachi is Mark 1:3 coming from if you believe verses 2-3 in Mark chapter 1 is coming for just Malachi? Thanks

    Randy

  34. Michael said

    Michael,

    I am swamped with ministry right now but I wanted to keep my word concerning what day I would chase your rabbit. At first glance I almost took offense at your request for me to tell you what the gospel is. I will refrain and assume (which I know is dangerous) that your written words are simply not carrying what I might get through a face to face conversation.

    According to God’s Word we have all sinned. There is no one who can stand up to God’s law of righteousness and be found innocent. We each have decided to rebel and run from God. A decision which affects us now and forever. The penalty of sin is death. God loves us so much that He desires to save us and provide an avenue for reconciliation with Himself. While we were enemies, God the Son stepped out of heaven and into this world in the form of man. 100% man, 100% God…the only possible way to bridge the gap between us and God. Jesus, though He had all our weaknesses and was tried in all manners we are, did not sin and therefore did not have to taste death. He chose to take our sins upon Himself and die in our place. He rose again three days later so that all who accepted His gift of life could follow Him into eternity with the Father. This gift, this exchange of our sinful lives for His righteous life, is free and cannot be earned. One must simply repent, believe in your heart that Jesus died and rose again, and confess with your mouth that He is Lord and YOU WILL BE SAVED!

    Now, I asked that you would temper the comments by others who cross lines into assumptions and conclusions that you said you do not agree with but I am saddened that you still do not.

    Julie said “I say they are PERVERSIONS and there is only one Bible…the King James Bible and if a person possesses the Holy Spirit of God then they can and will understand it and glean from it. The problem with so many is they don’t possess the true author!!”

    So all those who struggle with the King James Version do so because they are not saved? I don’t know where to begin…first, it is NOT our job to decide who is saved. A preference of Bible version is NOT evidentiary fruit of the indwelling Spirit. I have NEVER considered KJV Only folks to be a cult but…-be one of us and read this only or you can’t go to heaven-…that’s approaching it. Where is the “by faith alone”? Think I’ll place my hope in Christ who is NOT dependant on my ability to read certain words with ease. Your response to this woman taking God’s place as judge?…” Great hearing from you, sis! Thanks again for your comments, and LORD BLESS”

    Gary said “Most professing Christians are ignorant of the fact that if they don’t have a KJV, they have the equivalent of the JW bible.”

    Oh come on! I am excited that Gary knows of the New World Translation and its perversion but you cannot compare the two as EQUALS. Judge Rutherford totally reworked Colossians and John to remove any possible trace of Jesus’ deity. If a verse is lacking or reads differently (WHICH I AM NOT SAYING I LIKE OR AGREE WITH) there are still plenty of passages in the NIV, NASB or whatever that clearly point to the fact Jesus is God and the only way to salvation. The JW intentionally tried to remove evidence of this doctrine. You may find them various shades of the same attack on God’s Word but they are in no way ‘EQUIVALENT” in their “perversion”. At least Gary, unlike Julie, allows me to still see heaven.

    Your response to Gary’s embellishment?…” Thank you, Bro. Johnson, for your comments!!!” You know Michael, if you don’t agree with some of these statements then how can you affirm and commend others who make them? Love your people but remember that it is not loving to allow them to continue down wrong paths.

    Jerry said “More junk from apostate Christendom…”

    Whatever happened to hating the sin not the sinner? Does the KJV not speak of our battle not being with flesh but a spiritual one? If I really believed your position and that Satan was destroying God’s church with perversions of His Word then it would break my heart. I would express my pain not call names with contempt. Your response to Jerry’s slandering?…”AMEN BROTHER…AMEN”

    Michael, I spent a while this morning looking through your previous posts while literally shedding tears over the bitterness and hostility aimed from one believer at another. I was surprised to find these version discussions are not par for the course in your blog. In fact, I couldn’t find any others for over a year. I was entertaining thoughts of never returning to your blog again but just keeping you in my prayers however I like much of what you post. Some of it greatly encourages me. Sound off on what you believe to be true but please, please…I beg you my brother in the same vein of Paul’s plea in Philippians 4 to “Let your moderation/gentleness/graciousness be known unto all men.” 2 Timothy 2:23-26 is a passage that has changed the way I attmept to correct fales teachings…GENTLENESS!…MEEKNESS! These are GOD’s words not mine. The world is supposed to know we are His by our love one for another. Please help the Body not strive with itself.

    If you, as I believe you have already said, do not believe me and all others who use versions other than KJV to be apostates or lacking a true relationship with Christ then please lovingly temper those comments. If you do not as a fear of being fired by confronting… brother, God will provide and care for you even if your people rebel against His truth. God bless.

  35. Gary Johnson said

    Oh how this issue stirs the waters.

    First.

    Lets get back to Mark 1. This was the passage the Lord used to show me something was up with these modern versions 23 years ago. There are thousands of passages we could use to show the changes, many which affect doctrine, and many which are just very poor scholarship.
    In Mark 1, verse 2 is a quotation from Mal 3:1, and verse 3 is a quotation from Isaiah 40:3. Therefore at it reads at the beginning of verse 2 in the KJV, “as it is written in the prophets” is correct. Every Bible that reads to the effect of “as it is written in Isaiah” is incorrect. The KJV is correct, accurate, and right in this passage. No matter how I say this, gently or arrogantly, doesn’t change the fact.

    Second.

    I fear many that use the new versions have never done a study between their Bible and the JW Bible to see how closely they agree in their stand against the KJV. The reason is because the new versions and the JW bible both come from the same Greek and Hebrew line of manuscripts. I have done the study, the NIV and JW bibles agree in many places attacking the diet of Christ, the blood atonement, the virgin birth, and on we could go with that list.

    Third.

    This is just a personal observation. After 23 years with the Lord, I notice the great difference in churches and Christians that align themselves with new versions versus those holding to the KJV. I see in the new versions defenders a lack of zeal for sound doctrine, as most of them hold to the universal, invisible church theory, just using that as one example. And then when they are corrected, the reaction is to cry out against those showing the errors as having no love, no kindness, etc…

    The Bible says, “Prove all things, hold fast that which is good.”

  36. Randy Talbot said

    Gary, I have a question for you.
    In Matthew 27:6-10 says “And the chief priests took the silver pieces, and said, It is not lawful for to put them into the treasury, because it is the price of blood. And they took counsel, and bought with them the potter’s field, to bury strangers in. Wherefore that field was called, The field of blood, unto this day. Then was fulfilled that which was spoken by Jeremy the prophet, saying, And they took the thirty pieces of silver, the price of him that was valued, whom they of the children of Israel did value; And gave them for the potter’s field, as the Lord appointed me.”
    Where in the book of Jeremiah is this quote taken from? I can see where it was taken from Zechariah 11:12-13 but not from Jeremiah.
    Randy

  37. Randy Talbot said

    Gary,
    I have tried to use the King James Version in the past but there are just certain verses in the KJV that I just do not understand. If I do not understand what God is saying how can I be obedient to Him. Proverbs 18:1-2 is one of them which says “Through desire a man, having separated himself, seeketh and intermeddleth with all wisdom. A fool hath no delight in understanding, but that his heart may discover itself.” No matter how many times I have read this, I just do not understand what it is saying. On the other hand, a modern translation of the Bible such as the New King James Version is clear and understandable which says “A man who isolates himself seeks his own desire; He rages against all wise judgment. A fool has no delight in understanding, But in expressing his own heart.”
    I am glad that you do understand the King James Version of the Bible and therefore can be obedient to God. I find that with such verses as above in the King James Version I could not.
    Randy

  38. Gary Johnson said

    Just to follow what is written. It said –

    “Then was fulfilled that which was spoken by Jeremy the prophet”. In contrast to what we were looking at in Mark 1, which said, “As it is written in the prophets”. It did not say it was written in Jeremiah, but simply that he spoke it, and later Zechariah wrote it down.

    I don’t know if you were trying to point out an error in the KJV, the new versions also have a form of “spoken by Jeremiah.” So all are in agreement on the translation of that passage.

    I would never claim to understand all of the Bible, that would make me equal to God. When I don’t understand something, I ask the Lord about it, continue to study, and wait upon him for understanding. No one will understand all this side of heaven.

  39. Randy Talbot said

    Gary,

    There is a manuscript that has Matthew 27:9 as “Then was fulfilled what was spoken by the Prophet who said,…”

    That manuscript is more accurate in my opinion than the manuscript used by the King James Version in this passage.

    Can you name any minor prophet mentioned by name by the Gospel writers other than Jonah mentioned by Jesus? I could find none. What does this mean? I don’t know.

    Randy

  40. Michael said

    Gary,

    Concerning your 2nd remark – You are greatly incorrect. Charles Taze Russell, the founder of JW and Judge Rutherford had perverted the gospel and invented so many new false doctrines that the scriptures contradicted that a new translation was needed. I believe I misnamed Judge Rutherford, the 2nd JW president, as being the one that came out with the New World Translation but my memory had failed me. It was indeed the 3rd president, Nathan Knorr, who produced this corrupted “version”. It was NOT from the same Greek and Hebrew manuscripts and is NOT similar to any other version you detest. Knorr set out simply adding and taking away what he wished so that their “bible” would match their teachings. His focus and the majority of his changes are in Colossians and John not Mark. Please quit speaking of that which you do not know as though you have some knowledge. There are others, who are not informed, that will read your words and take them to heart. You don’t like anything but KJV…good. You think it is the most accurate…great. You want to make it a personal soapbox of yours to proclaim to the world…wonderful. But don’t fabricate straw-man arguments to confuse and mislead others who have no knowledge.

    You know, I intended to begin a long in-depth discussion with you concerning claims of great study in which you found all these translations which removed proof for certain doctrines which can only be found in KJV bibles…which you and I know is false. The only thing that spurs me on to ask you to begin giving SPECIFIC! examples one by one is for the benefit of all those that will read this. I honestly feel more inclined to spend my time leaving my office at the church and ministering to lost folks in the neighborhoods around me and looking for opportunities to share the GOOD NEWS. May I humbly repeat the commands of my Savior to you and suggest you expend more energy doing the same rather than back-biting other brothers in Christ.

    Your third remark concerning my lack of passion and knowledge of sound doctrine. If you only knew who you were speaking to Gary. That is a major problem with the anonymity of the internet. I am a undeserving man called to God’s work. I have never understood His calling of me. I know plenty of people who have more knowledge and more ability to preach and lead than I will ever have. I have tried numerous times to point out to God that I do not belong in the work He has given me. He sent me first to a small church in the rural deep south to a wonderful group of people. Wonderful as neighbors but I have never seen a group so apathetic for God’s word and His work. I loved those folks and poured my heart and God’s words out to them as often as I was allowed for four years. I spent many days in my office and nights in my bed crying for them, pleading for God to turn their hearts to Him. This was also a group of folks with a very poor foundation of doctrine. I preached series on the basics of our faith. I preached series on the doctrines of our denomination. I taught classes of the same. I preached straight through books of the Bible not skipping a single verse to the best my God empowered me to do. Then you, and people like Jerry and Julie, have the audacity to call me a passionless apostate Christian or worse who has no desire for God’s word or the teaching of it to His people? My God and Savior were right. Not only will I be persecuted by this lost and dying world but apparently also by stiff-necked, present day legalistic Pharisees whose mouth are truly filled with the poison of asps like yourself who have more interest in winning an argument than in the winning of souls for Christ. God have mercy on you. I’m done and I won’t be back. Feel free to attack me, my character, and my standing in God’s family after I close. It will be consistant and only make my point.

    Michael-When I first came to this site I mentioned my experiences with KJV only folks. I had been told I was not a Christian, was a worker of Satan’s, and could not do any work for God’s kingdom. You claimed that you weren’t one of them that would not say such things. I pray that is true and it seems so in your writing but brother your camp is filled with such. So far, you have been the only person I have ever met or heard from which displyed love while explaining your position though tempering those under your care is necessary. All others I have met cannot discuss this matter without fabrication, generality and worst of all personal attacks. May God bless you in your ministry in all areas and actions that bring Him glory. May He bless you and your family in your dealings with the people you were given to shepherd. May those people show you more respect and kindness than they apparently show other ministers. God be with you.

  41. Michael said

    My God has dealt with his servant once again. I apologize for the Pharisetic comment above. It was in a moment of “passion” responding to personal attacks that should have been ignored. I know it has just completely undone all else I had to say. That breaks my hearts. Man, I hate sin. I can’t wait to be with my Lord apart from it. I ask for your forgiveness.

    Please brothers and sisters…learn to share your views without attacks. Jesus did such. And so should we. Again, I’m sory.

  42. Then you, and people like Jerry and Julie, have the audacity to call me a passionless apostate Christian or worse who has no desire for God’s word or the teaching of it to His people? My God and Savior were right. Not only will I be persecuted by this lost and dying world but apparently also by stiff-necked, present day legalistic Pharisees whose mouth are truly filled with the poison of asps like yourself who have more interest in winning an argument than in the winning of souls for Christ.

    Michael, it is not slander or persecution – your problem is you just can’t read what people are posting without reading into it things they have not said. I said the ESV is a product of apostate Christendom – nowhere did I state that all those who read it were apostates. Nowhere did Julie state that all those who read modern versions were unsaved. You are determined to twist what is said – then cry how unloving, critical, etc. we are. Perhaps you should spend more time reading and less time reacting.

  43. iowabaptist said

    Brother Szekely,

    Who turned on the bug zapper? Look at all these comments! It’s amazing who comes out to play when we face the issues at hand. Your replies have been par excelant!

    The Iowabaptist

  44. thebaptistheritage said

    Brother,
    Praise God there were Baptist men of yesteryear looked at the different versions and realized they were rotten, and weren’t afraid to ruffle feathers, stand up and say God has given us one Bible (in English) the KJB. I lose touch somtimes with just how alive this issue is today. Thanks for bringing me up to speed.
    Still Learning,
    Baptist Heritage

  45. Don Rogers said

    Some were wondering who the spokespersons for the ESV were:

    http://www.joniandfriends.org/

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desiring_God#Ministry

  46. Arlene said

    I just wanted to say: “Amen and amen!” :o)

    P.S. I’ve been meaning to send you a link to our church in Japan for sometime now, and I just keep forgetting. Better late than never, right?

  47. confused said

    I would have hated to live prior to 1611 or in a non-english speaking country. I would never have been saved. Thankfully the KJV preserves the old English language which the writers of the Old and New Testaments themselves used. Those guys were really ahead of their time.

  48. The KJV didn’t come from the TR. The TR wasn’t even named as such until after the KJV was published.

  49. Donna said

    I came across this blog while searching for photos to use for a VBS puppet skit. I wish there were posts beyond September 2008.

    As for the KJV, I was raised on the KJV and would not use any other version. The KJV is written at a 5th grade reading level, however other versions (supposedly easier to understand) are written at 7th grade and above reading levels. KJV is also the ONLY version WITHOUT a copyright, why would anybody try to copyright God? Because it’s not God’s word if it’s copyrighted.

    I had the opportunity several years ago to see a display of the Dead Sea Scrolls, the earliest known copies of the Bible in existence. Those translate nearly word for word to the KJV.

    I much prefer to use the divine inspired Word of God, the KJV.

    • Five Point Baptist said

      Donna, the KJV was copyrighted when it was originally printed. Now, however, the copyright has expired and it can be freely reproduced. It’s interesting to note the in the United Kingdom, the KJV’s copyright is still in effect and cannot be freely reproduced for some time. According to your statement,”Because it’s not God’s Word if it’s copyrighted,” the KJV wouldn’t be God’s Word when the copyright was in effect but now is because it expired.

      As for the reading level, I prefer not to see what is deemed today as a “swear word.” For example, I do not use the words “ass” when speaking of a donkey and “piss” when speaking of urination in everyday language. This language is now associated with vulgarity and I prefer not to see it in the Word of God.

      Also, the Dead Sea Scrolls translate nearly word for word to the other versions as well.

      It was my intention to respond to your posting in a Christian manner. If I have fallen short of this, I apologize.

  50. Bill said

    Concerning “Wow…I don’t know very much at all about her…”

    Her testimony got my attention and assisted in bringing me to the point that I got saved. So I recommend being somewhat familiar with her bio…what she went through decades ago…diving into shallow water…becoming a quadripalegic (sp?)…etc. And I’m KJV-only so I’m not at all endorsing anything said in favor of a modern version…Bill

  51. Matt Law said

    I don’t go to an independent baptist, and we don’t use the kjv. My question is why do you all believe that the kjv is the only right version?

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