The Pastor\’s Pen

An Independent Baptist Preacher\’s Musings and Observations

The Truth of Hell

Posted by Pastor Szekely on June 26, 2008

Hell is an Awful PlaceA graphic pitcher of what a person may look like in hell or the lake of fire. Hell is no joke. Hell is a place, it is real, and it is the destination of all who reject Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. Pray for the one who’s face you see when you look at this person who is indeed in a state of torment. It will probably be much worse than even this pitcher shows. Pray for souls to be saved, pray that you won’t quit on God and that you can help some soul to come to know the Lord Jesus Christ and the forgiveness of their sins. “For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.” Romans 6:23

This was just sent to me via email by a friend…pretty powerful and a much-needed reminder to us who know and believe the truth of Hell.

You don’t really believe in a literal, burning fiery place of torment called Hell, do you? ” This type of question and attitude is actually quite prevalent in our country today. I’ve read surveys that state while just 8 out of 10 Americans would agree that there is “some kind of afterlife” , only 3 out of 10 believe there is a Hell that is “an actual place of torment and suffering where a person’s soul goes after death” without God.

There are many skeptics in our country and in this world today who would love for you and me to never preach on, and never tell of, the truth of Hell. But friends, Hell is real. It is a place of real punishment for real people with a real penalty before God! Skeptics just cannot – and will not – accept that.

 

The Lord Jesus Christ is the Greatest Hell-fire and Brimstone Preacher we can know. Out of 162 New Testament references on Hell and eternal judgment, 70 were spoken by Christ. Why did Jesus speak so much on Hell? He knew of the Truth of Hell AND He desired to warn men of Hell because He didn’t want to see anyone go to that awful place! So for the skeptic and the unbeliever, our Lord has given an expert witness on the Truth of Hell. In Luke 16, the Lord Jesus tells of a rich man who went to Hell…and is still there today.

 

Luke 16:22-23, “And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham’s bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; (vs23) And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.”

The truth is – Hell is a REAL PLACE!

Skeptics will try to discredit the reality of Hell – but the rich man lives it today!

 

Friend, Hell is a real place for real lost peoplePsalm 9:17 says,  “The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God”. The rich man didn’t go to Hell because of his wealth…he went to Hell because of his poverty – his spiritual poverty!

 

Hell is a real place of real tears and tormentLuke 16:24 says, “And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.” The rich was being tormented – and he still is! His body and tongue still burn; he still desires “just a drop” of cool water; he still longs for mercy – but it’s too late! Someone once said, “For many, Hell is a truth believed too late“.

 

Hell is a real place of real memory.  Luke 16:25, “But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.” Those words…“Son, remember” still ring in the rich man’s ears. I’m told that “we remember everything, but we just can’t recollect everything”. It’s an incredible thought to ponder…everything you hear, feel, see, taste, smell…you’ll record it all! How many people in Hell today heard and rejected Bible messages on Hell and the Gospel…they live with the memories of those words forever.

 

Hell is a real place of real prayerLuke 16:27-28, “Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father’s house: (vs28) For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.” The rich man prayed for his 5 brethren! From what we find here from the Lord, you must believe that there are people in Hell praying for others right now!

Oh, if my wife would only listen…”

Please…someone go to my family…tell them of the salvation in Jesus, compel them…persuade them to believe…so they won’t ever have to come here!!!”

 

Friend, whether man believes it or not, Hell is a real place – for real lost people – with real tears and torment – where there’s real memory – and real prayer. Skeptics will try and discredit the reality of Hell, but this rich man that the Lord Jesus speaks of still lives it today.

 

For many, Hell is a truth realized and believed too late…

Won’t YOU listen to the Lord and the rich man instead of the skeptic?

 

Lost soul – Please turn from sin and turn to and trust the Lord Jesus Christ to save you from the penalty of your sins – repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ for who He is [He’s God] and for what He says He can do [wash away your sin debt with His Blood].

Child of God – Hell is real and real people are dying and going there! God sends you to their rescue before they perish…WILL YOU GO?

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40 Responses to “The Truth of Hell”

  1. Kate said

    Excellent post!!! That is a VERY powerful picture also!

    Kate

  2. Thank you for your comments, sis!

    And I know…that picture is “worth a thousand words”.

    Lord bless!

  3. Bro Tim said

    Bro,

    Thanks for sharing this reminder with us. Would the church get a vision of what is going to happen to those that dont get saved? May the Lord help us to get a burden and a tear in our eyes to see people saved.

    Bro Tim

  4. Amen, my brother!

    I pray God’s children would wake up and see the lost with the compassion of our Lord Jesus Christ – “But when He saw the multitudes, He was moved with compassion on them, because they fainted, and were scattered abroad, as sheep having no shepherd.” Matt 9:36.

    Hell is too real and time is too short – 120 people are dying every minute while churches plan and program themselves to insignificance…God help us!

    Thank you for your comments, my brother!

  5. Jesse Norman II said

    I think you should stop using the new translations of the Bible. What you quoted in Luke about Lazarus and the rich man was horrible. Hell is nowhere mentioned not only in the original King James, but the original Greek either. That’s an assumption they’re making that they don’t need to make. Try reading things back to the original Hebrew and Greek languages and try learning something. The King James is filled with a lot of errors because it’s man’s influence over the word of God one time over. The new translations is twice man’s influence over the word of God which brings even more errors. As it is written in the original Greek, the rich man looked across a χασμα (KAS-mah), which means a gulf or crevice, (the KJV is correct) and he spoke to Abraham. It is nowhere in the Greek that he looked up from hell. If you’re going to quote something, get the facts straight.

  6. Hey Jessie…

    Did you even read the Scripture text I used??? I only use the KJV. Where did I use “new translations of the Bible”?

    You said at the end of your comment, “If you’re going to quote something, get the facts straight”…how about you practicing what you’re preaching?

    And BTW: You can talk all day about the original Greek, but a person doesn’t need to know Greek to know what God has said – that’s why He’s preserved His Word for us in English!

    And what’s this you said, “Hell is nowhere mentioned not only in the original King James, but the original Greek either. That’s an assumption they’re making that they don’t need to make.” So Jesus never preached on Hell; God never mentioned Hell at the end of the Book of the Revelation…what are you thinking?

    YOU might not believe in a literal place called Hell, but that does not change the Biblical fact.

  7. Jesse Norman II said

    Man, you are really uneducated, not to be insulting. What I said was that in that part where Jesus was giving the parable of Lazarus and the rich man was that hell isn’t mentioned there, or does it say that he looked up from it. You may be using a KJV but you aren’t using an original KJV because it doesn’t say hell there in the original KJV. If you weren’t so quick to be defensive about your position, you might have understood what I was saying on hell. Of course there is a hell. It’s just that the word “hell” is not mentioned in the parable of Lazarus and the rich man. Hell isn’t below our feet. If you tried doing what someone who wanted to seek God’s true word should do, and that is to use a Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance, you would see that hell is up there. There’s a gulf that divides hell from heaven. That’s one huge point Jesus was trying to make. Everybody goes to God after their death and it’s been that way since at least the time Jesus defeated death. When on the rare occasion a person dies and they are brought back to life, the universal thing that is seen is a tunnel of white light. If you imagine travelling through space many times the speed of light and having stars, constellations, and other heavenly bodies passing by, that would produce that tunnel of white light. Even people who’ve lived a bad life claimed to have seen the tunnel of white light. Hell is up there and there is only a gulf that divides them. Lazarus spoke to Abraham and could see Abraham.

    “And BTW: You can talk all day about the original Greek, but a person doesn’t need to know Greek to know what God has said – that’s why He’s preserved His Word for us in English!” That’s just dumb. How can you be a teacher of God and not try to trace things back to its language of origin? There are many mistranslations in the original KJV, let alone the newer translations. I think they’re even supposed to be there because I know God’s point of view is if you want to get to know Him, then you’re going to have to put your work in. Not tracing things back to the original languages won’t give you or your students the full picture of the word of God. For example in Matthew 24:3 where the disciples come to Jesus privily and ask Jesus for the signs of his coming and the end of the world. The word “world” there in the I guess it’s not important original Greek is actually the word “αιων” (ahee-OWN) which really means age, not world. They were asking for signs of the end of the age. You wouldn’t know that just be reading the English. You would also have to wonder what the millennium is for then because when Jesus returns that is the end of the world according to the KJV. Yet it says Jesus reigns on Earth with his saints for 1000 years while Satan is imprisoned in the bottomless pit during that time. Then for a short while after, Satan is let loose from his prison to deceive the world once again and to make war with the saints. God stops them and ends that age as well, as is written in the original Greek. THEN the books are opened, not beforehand. But since the Greek is totally unimportant to you, you would never get that.

  8. Jesse Norman II said

    One more thing about the languages God used. The star that fell from heaven named Wormwood in the Ukrainian language is the word “chernobyl”. There are more things revealed in God’s word than just English.

  9. You said, “You may be using a KJV but you aren’t using an original KJV because it doesn’t say hell there in the original KJV.”
    –What KJV are you talking about? What “original” KJV?

    You said, “But since the Greek is totally unimportant to you, you would never get that.”
    –It’s not that I think Greek is ‘totally unimportant’, but knowing Greek is not essential to Bible knowledge.

    Listen…I don’t know who you are or much of what you believe, but I do see your arrogance and ignorance coming through:
    “Man, you are really uneducated, not to be insulting.”
    “If you tried doing what someone who wanted to seek God’s true word should do, and that is to use a Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance…”
    “That’s just dumb. How can you be a teacher of God and not try to trace things back to its language of origin? There are many mistranslations in the original KJV, let alone the newer translations. I think they’re even supposed to be there because I know God’s point of view is if you want to get to know Him, then you’re going to have to put your work in.”
    “There are more things revealed in God’s word than just English.”

    –If you really were interested in propagating what you say you believe, you’d come down from the lofty position you’ve placed yourself. BTW: Uneducated, dumb, and ignorant-ole me used a form of “propagate” in a sentance…you know, the word that’s derived from the Latin ‘propago’ meaning (Latin def) that which is set or thrust in…but I imagine you knew that already.

    Did you even get the point and thrust of the post??? No…you were too busy writing your mini-blog on mine. Do you believe in a literal, firey place called Hell? Yes, you do as you said. I believe the rich man is in Hell today…do you? Do you believe Hell is a real place for real lost people, real tears and torment, real place of memory, and a real place of prayer? I do…and I believe I need my English Authorized Version of the Holy Bible. Greek can be good, but it’s not essential.

    Finally, you said, “Everybody goes to God after their death and it’s been that way since at least the time Jesus defeated death. When on the rare occasion a person dies and they are brought back to life, the universal thing that is seen is a tunnel of white light. If you imagine travelling through space many times the speed of light and having stars, constellations, and other heavenly bodies passing by, that would produce that tunnel of white light. Even people who’ve lived a bad life claimed to have seen the tunnel of white light.”
    –Wow…if you believe that, please enlighten me to the Scriptural references you have on this. I could give Scripture texts that disagree with your statement that “everybody goes to God after their death and it’s been that way since at least the time Jesus defeated death”, but since I’m not using the “right” and “original” KJV, what’s the point.

    Spare me.

  10. Jesse Norman II said

    You can’t be using an original KJV of the Bible because you’re quoting in that parable the word “hell” and that he looked up from hell at Abraham. The original KJV, which I am sure you know, has words like “thee” and such. You want scriptural references as to where hell is, there was only a gulf dividing Lazarus and the rich man. There you go. Now you have your scriptural reference. The rich man was able to talk to Abraham. Would the rich man be able to see and talk to Abraham if Abraham was all the way up there, millions of light years away while the rich man was under the Earth with former rock stars? No he would not. Just to point out to you that I do know more than you, and this isn’t a contest, this is me wanting those who think of you as a teacher to see your limits, I will ask you a question. If you can answer it correctly then I would gladly say I’m sorry for bothering you. When you get it wrong and I give you the right answer, you will know that my answer is the right one because there’s no other way to look at it. The question is when Jesus was on the cross and said “My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?”, why wasn’t that a sin? Good luck.

  11. Jesse Norman II said

    Just for fun’s sake, indulge me and answer the question. Sorry for leaving that part out.

  12. Don Rogers said

    Hey guys. Does either of you have a KJV which contains the “Apocrypha”.Good chance that they don’t. The “Apocrypha” was in the original, first edition. Guess that goes to show no one has anything close to the original autographs, so I guess we’ll never know what God originally intended for us to know. Either of you guys Catholic? You know that the Universal Church is the organization which assembled the first “Bible”, closest to the version we have today. If either of you are interested in knowing how hell made its way into Christianity, check out these articles, at your leisure. I dare you:
    http://www.pantelism.com/JesusTeachingonHell.htm
    http://pantelism.com/BibleThreateningsExplained.htm
    These did come from my website. I provide them to you to start you thinking.

  13. Don Rogers said

    Just a further note.I was a Baptist for 59 years. I was a third generation Baptist deacon. I know the Baptist church from the inside.I had questions which were never answered by the church. I left to begin a journey of exploration which I could never have within the church. I just would like for people to think for themselves. Don’t believe me. Research the history of early Christianity yourself. You will be surprised at what you find. It isn’t the picture you’ve always been told or shown.

  14. Jesse Norman II said

    First of all I would like to apologize to you, Mr. Szekely. I did screw a few things up because, not to make excuses, but I am taking new bp medications for a serious life-threatening disease I have. Sometimes it can play with my memory and my patience, as if my disease doesn’t do enough on its own. You are right about what it says with the parable of Lazarus and the rich man and that it was a KJV. What I noticed immediately though was that you did leave out the part about how there was a gulf that was the only thing that was between Lazarus and Abraham, and the rich man. Because my mind likes to play tricks on me, I took that as a total deletion of where hell is. I still contend that hell is up there as well because as it says there is only a gulf between them. People should know about all of what is written there. Then with you writing that just having the Bible in English is good enough, I had to take issue with that. It’s good enough for those who just want to build their faith, but to me it’s not good enough for a teacher to have. I don’t know Greek or Hebrew but I have a Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance which tells me what the original words were before the translation of the KJV. That is something you really should take a look at. In my opinion, it’s a must to really learn God’s word in its original form.

    I would like you to answer my question though about Jesus. Why wasn’t what he said on the cross a sin? Most people will say either that it was impossible for him to sin or that what he said wasn’t a sin. Those are wrong. Jesus had the ability to sin. He just didn’t. Satan did tempt him in the desert knowing full well who he was. If Jesus didn’t have the ability to sin, Satan wouldn’t have wasted his breath. That would also be cheapening the pains our Christ went through. On the surface, to accuse God of foresaking them would be a sin no matter who it came from. There is a specific reason why what he said wasn’t a sin though. I would like you to answer me.

  15. Jesse Norman II said

    As for Don Rogers, people should read on their own for sure. But let’s not make any mistakes that the so-called great thinkers have the correct history on how Christianity started. First they said there was no evidence Jesus ever lived, then they realized there was too much evidence. Then they said there was no crucifixion, then they found proof of it. The true intellectual is the true fool. When I answer the question of why what Jesus said on the cross wasn’t a sin, there will be no other plausible explanation and would conclusively prove that not only was Jesus the Christ, but that the Old and New Testaments are truly God’s word.

  16. Don R said

    Why was my post on the KJV and the “Apocrypha” not shown?

  17. Don R said

    I am afraid you both have elevated the KJV to the level of “Idol”. You worship the book instead of the Source of all.

  18. Jesse Norman II said

    Actually I don’t elevate the KJV to the level of “Idol”, so I don’t know where you came up with that. I use a Strong’s Concordance to trace back as much as possible the original languages. Being a man of faith, you should know many things that scholars teach on such matters are of things they cannot understand, and they use incredible bias. I am guessing you are coming from a point of view that the way the KJV of the Bible was put together was a bit controversial while leaving out some other books that never made it to the KJV. As a person who knows God’s divine power, it may have looked like the collective books in the KJV were in the hands of men, but being as important as the word of God is I know God was indeed the decision maker in what books were to be included in the KJV. Not men. Don’t always believe your eyes.

    I know of the Apocrphya and have read all of the books in it. The actual Greek word is “apocraphy”, which means “hidden things”. There is nothing that is in the apocrypha that clash with the KJV. It just reveals more. It’s not for the everyday learner, hence the word apocraphy. The septuagint decided to keep the books from most people and only allowed their best students to read it. That was done for a reason. The books of Tobit and Ecclesiasticus were very remarkable. In Ecclesiasticus it also confirms what time we are living in now. It speaks of babies being born several months premature being able to survive in the last days and babies under one year of age being able to walk and talk in the last days. Those things are happening.

    The answer to my question posed to Mr. Szekely why Jesus didn’t sin on the cross when he said “My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?” is that he wasn’t speaking to God at all.
    Jesus was quoting scripture. In Psalm 22 it begins by saying “My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me” You go on to verse 16 and it says “For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet.” As I’m sure you know, the psalms were written around 1000BC. The Jews knew nothing of crucifixion until Titus Vespasian came into Israel in 76BC. This was written around 900 years before that. They did pierce his hands and his feet. It even mentions in that psalm how his garments were casted upon lots, just like how it happened in the gospels. Jesus was telling all of us that Psalm 22 was him and that it was scripture being fulfilled. That’s why it wasn’t a sin. He was speaking to us, not to God. Not only does that prove he was the Christ, but also proves the point that the Old and New Testaments are genuine.

  19. Jesse Norman II said

    *Apocrypha”… typo. http://jnormanii.wordpress.com/

  20. Don R said

    Jesse- Please, please read the article. I believe it may help.

    http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/hell_test.html

    Thanks!

  21. Jesse Norman II said

    I read the article, Don. My belief isn’t what most people believe because I’ve done my best to take the King James back to the Hebrew and Greek languages. I wrote a blog that concerns this at my own blog site called “There Is A Difference Between Heaven And Everlasting Life”. I also read while purposefully erasing anything I’ve ever heard from anyone, even the most common teachings. I read the Bible as if I never heard anything about it for but read it as if it were God’s word. Since it is God’s word, I let Him explain Himself to me. If I would have read with the influence of men, I would have never known Psalm 22 and its meaning. It’s been there the whole time and it’s one psalm away from the most popular psalm of them all, and yet men do not comprehend what Psalm 22 is saying or what Christ said on the cross. I’ve done very well in my learning. You read some of my blogs and you will see that. http://jnormanii.wordpress.com/

  22. Wow, Brother Mike, looks like you got a few livewires posting comments on your blog! Why do people think they can wing it spiritually and then imagine that they are the only ones who got it right?

    In refutation of Jesse’s posts:

    Hell isn’t in outer space – it is in the heart of the earth, just like the Bible teaches. Before the death, burial, resurrection and ascension of Christ, Abraham’s Bosom/Paradise was also under the earth. There is nothing in Luke 16 to indicate it is a parable in any way, shape or form – it is literal truth.

    Deuteronomy 32:22 For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell, and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains.

    Job 11:8 It is as high as heaven; what canst thou do? deeper than hell; what canst thou know?

    Psalms 55:15 Let death seize upon them, and let them go down quick into hell: for wickedness is in their dwellings, and among them.

    Psalms 86:13 For great is thy mercy toward me: and thou hast delivered my soul from the lowest hell.

    Psalms 139:8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.

    Proverbs 5:5 Her feet go down to death; her steps take hold on hell.

    Proverbs 7:27 Her house is the way to hell, going down to the chambers of death.

    Proverbs 9:18 But he knoweth not that the dead are there; and that her guests are in the depths of hell.

    Proverbs 15:24 The way of life is above to the wise, that he may depart from hell beneath.

    Isaiah 14:9 Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.

    Isaiah 14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

    Ezekiel 31:16-17 I made the nations to shake at the sound of his fall, when I cast him down to hell with them that descend into the pit: and all the trees of Eden, the choice and best of Lebanon, all that drink water, shall be comforted in the nether parts of the earth. They also went down into hell with him unto them that be slain with the sword; and they that were his arm, that dwelt under his shadow in the midst of the heathen.

    Ezekiel 32:27 And they shall not lie with the mighty that are fallen of the uncircumcised, which are gone down to hell with their weapons of war: and they have laid their swords under their heads, but their iniquities shall be upon their bones, though they were the terror of the mighty in the land of the living.

    Amos 9:2 Though they dig into hell, thence shall mine hand take them; though they climb up to heaven, thence will I bring them down:

    Matthew 11:23 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.

    Luke 10:15 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted to heaven, shalt be thrust down to hell.

    2 Peter 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

  23. Jesse Norman II said

    Then explain to me where exactly this place is then? Can our Earth hold souls? Didn’t God tell the people of Israel that when someone commits a crime worthy of death to send that soul to Him? Who’s to say that a soul doesn’t go to God to get their sentence and then God sends them downward from where He is, but still way up there? Explain to me the gulf that separates hell from heaven. How the rich man can see Abraham and Lazarus. What is written in 2nd Peter 2:4 is perfectly written to also say that their sentence is temporary. “To be reserved unto judgment”. Winging it? Explain to me what is written of the churches of Christ in Revelation. Christ finds no fault in only two of them and it’s my contention those two churches don’t even exist yet. Explain why Christ was very much against the traditional teachings of men. Did you know about Psalm 22 and how it corrolates with Christ on the cross? If you say you did, then I’ll call you a liar. Winging it… give me a break.

  24. You can’t even keep on the same subject for a whole post…

    Can our Earth hold souls?

    Obviously, if we take the Bible at face value.

    Who’s to say that a soul doesn’t go to God to get their sentence and then God sends them downward from where He is

    The Great White Throne judgment for the wicked is at the end of the Millenium (see Revelation 20) – they don’t go there first.

    Explain to me the gulf that separates hell from heaven. How the rich man can see Abraham and Lazarus.

    Actually, the gulf is between where the rich man is in Hell and where Abraham and Lazarus were in Abraham’s Bosom – also under the earth.

    Explain to me what is written of the churches of Christ in Revelation. Christ finds no fault in only two of them and it’s my contention those two churches don’t even exist yet.

    What does that have to do with Hell? Those were literal first century churches – which also picture eras in church history. Doesn’t matter what your opinion is if it contradicts God’s Word.

    Did you know about Psalm 22 and how it corrolates with Christ on the cross? If you say you did, then I’ll call you a liar.

    I have studied out Psalm 22 various times, and I know quite well how it was fulfilled in the Lord Jesus Christ and His crucifixion.

    It is pretty obvious from those verses I gave that Hell is below us – all you are doing is arguing with God and His Word. So perhaps you should give yourself a break, and spend some more time studying God’s Word instead of publicly debating what you do not yet know, and looking like a fool.

    Proverbs 18:13 He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him.

  25. Jesse Norman II said

    The Great White Throne judgment is at the end of the millennium, but what happens after Jesus returns to end this age? Who are the dead that live not until the end of the millennium? What is a gulf? Millions of light years away I wouldn’t call a gulf. You still haven’t answered why they were able to see each other if they were so far away. If I’m a fool and you know so much, then answer me this question. If Adam was the first man on Earth, how did Cain go east into the land of Nod and take up a wife?

  26. Sounds like you are looking for reasons to make the Bible contradict itself – and are just throwing out arrows.

    Both Hell (where the rich man was) and Abraham’s Bosom/Paradise were under the earth until Christ rose from the dead and ascended. They were not light years away – and Luke 16 makes it clear they did see each other, so quit trying to rationalize away the Bible text.

    As far as Cain goes, the Bible also makes it pretty clear that Adam and Eve (the mother of ALL living) had other sons and daughters. Cain married one of his sisters.

  27. Jesse Norman II said

    Why would Christ mention heaven being under our feet if it would be some place else a short time after?
    No, I’m quite confident in God’s word being true. The reason why I asked that was because I knew you were going to give that answer, since you don’t wing it. If you don’t wing it, then you didn’t know about Psalm 22 either because no denomination teaches it as being corrolated with Christ’s death. If Cain married his sister, then who are the Kenites? Why would God mention a new race if Cain married his sister? I won’t give the answer, but I can point the way. The answer lies in Adam’s name in Hebrew. It might be their word for man, but it really has another literary meaning. There was a reason why he was named Adam. Cain married his sister… which sister is that by the way since he was banished before Adam and Eve had daughters?

  28. Pstr. Shane R. Groff said

    Very clear and definitive answers Bro. Bouey!! Amen!

    Jesse – Try letting go of your haughtiness and listen to the answers given. You are looking foolish.

    Pstr. Groff

  29. Jesse Norman II said

    I’m looking foolish to people who have no answers for me. I wonder how the prophets looked to those who didn’t just “wing it”. You answer me how could Cain marry one of his sisters since he was banished before Adam and Eve had daughters. Instead of saying the easy thing, answer my question.

  30. Jesse, for a Catholic, you don’t seem to have too much faith in the Bible you profess to believe in. The Bible does not say Adam and Eve did not have any daughters before Cain, in fact Genesis teaches they did have more sons and daughters – it just lists the sons, so to teach that they did not have daughters before that point in time is just adding to the Scriptures.

    Genesis 5:4 And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters:

    The Kenites in Scripture certainly are not children of Cain – as all but the line of Seth were destroyed in the flood, and the Kenites are referred to after the flood.

    Genesis 15:18-21 In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates: The Kenites, and the Kenizzites, and the Kadmonites, And the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Rephaims, And the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Girgashites, and the Jebusites.

  31. Jesse Norman II said

    I never said I was of the church of Ephesus, therefore not a catholic. The Kenites were of the seed of Cain. That’s pretty much common knowledge. I’m sure Mr. Szekely would concede that as well. The Kenites were a nomadic tribe until they settled into Israel and acted as if they were Israelites. They were called Kenites not because of the area they were in, such as with many other peoples mentioned in the Bible. They were a race. They took up Jewish names. They think they are Jews to this day. They were appointed to be scribes. Who do you think the Bible is talking about when it says they think they are Jews but are not. They’re liars. How did the other races come about? Where does it say that God waved a magic wand and created men of different colors and features. I very much believe in what the Bible says. Every word. There was a reason why God named Adam what He did, pointing out his race. Adam in the Hebrew literally means “ruddy complected” or “showing blood in the face”. Why did God name him that? I know it says that Adam had more sons and daughters AFTER Seth. That was my point. How did Cain take up a wife of the descendant of Adam after he was banished?

  32. You’re playing games. You tell me you are a Catholic on my blog, then you deny it here. Make up your mind.

    There is no possible way the Kenites are descendants of Cain – ALL OF CAIN’S DESCENDANTS WERE DESTROYED IN THE FLOOD. If you believe the Bible, THAT should be obvious…

    And, no, the Bible does not say all Adam and Eve’s other children were after Seth. The statement is made after the statement about Seth being born, but it is a statement of summary – not of sequence. Adam and Eve had sons and daughters. Three sons were named – there were more of both.

  33. Bravo, Bro. Jerry!

    “Mr. Szekely” did not concede that the Kenites were of the seed of Cain, and thank you for pointing out the obvious Biblical facts for us!

    I’ve just tried to stay out of this thread with Jessie because it’s getting nowhere with him. No offense, Jessie, but I don’t know what’s going on with you…and now, what Bro. Bouey has just pointed out is pretty indisputable. Are you willing to admit you’re wrong and maybe not as smart as you think, or will this all be excused away by saying something like, “No, I meant that the Kenites were of the ‘spiritual’ seed of Cain”, or something like that.

    Thank you for your comments, Bro. Bouey…and Jessie – it’s honestly been just incredible [and incomprehensible at times, I must say] to read your responses, but how much longer will you persist in your ramblings?

    And I don’t mean to get too personal, but do you follow the New Testament model of being joined up with the disciples…i.e. do you go to church and do you have a Pastor? What belief are you, or what do you call yourself…really?

    …just curious

  34. Jesse Norman II said

    I don’t think I’ve never been to your blog. I really haven’t, so I don’t know what you’re talking about. I’ve never said I was catholic ever in my life. What it says that was in the ark wasn’t two of every animal. It was two of every kind. We just assume through traditional teaching that it meant animals, even though there were only two animals ever mentioned actually being on the ark. The legend of the flood is a worldwide one. The Chinese have a legend of the flood. Everyone pretty much does. How would that happen if they were all destroyed? The kenites are of the seed of Cain. This is something that is pretty well accepted by the Jews and I thought the Christians as well, so I guess I was wrong about that assumption. Who are the people that say they are Jews but are not?

    After what I read about the different churches of Christ and how Jesus was against all that in my opinion exists today I decided to read on my own with my trusty Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance. I am a Christian. Nothing more. Without conceding that you were insulting me, why did God named Adam “ruddy complected”? I mean if I don’t know anything, then I wouldn’t know that would I? I tell you what, answer me these questions. What was the sin of Onan? Where is the ark of the covenant? Is there a rapture? Why did Jesus speak to everyone in parables but the disciples?

  35. Pstr. Shane R. Groff said

    Jesse… it seems that you trust the Strong’s Concordance more than you do the Bible.

    Bro. Szekely and Bro. Bouey… you have tried reasoning with this man, there is no reason to continue trying to answer Jesse’s rhetoric. He clearly does not care about the truth.

    “Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,”
    Romans 1:22

    Pstr. Groff

  36. Jesse Norman II said

    I guess I’ll leave this thread with my questions unanswered. I have one pastor who thinks that the English translation of God’s word is all that you need to be a teacher even though God’s word was originally written in Hebrew and Greek. Another thinks that heaven was below our feet even though it does say the rich man looked up to heaven which proves my point that heaven and hell both could be up there but I get belittled for my belief. Another pastor doesn’t know what a Strong’s Concordance even is. If he did know, then he would know that the Strong’s Concordance IS the Bible, so his statement about me trusting a Strong’s Concordance over the Bible makes no sense. Every word written in the KJV is in the Strong’s with the tracing of what the original word was before the translation of the KJV. I guess to him God’s word in its original form aren’t as good as the English translation of that word. Who knew God was English?

    Jesus is against all of the denominations of Christ that exist today. There were no new churches established in either Philadelphia or Smyrna. They were the same churches as the church of Ephesus. Is your church of the church of Philadelphia or Smyrna? No they are not. Since they’re not, then how does your church go wrong. You should be asking yourselves this question. Not me. Jesus was very much against traditional teaching and you are all traditional learners, so you have to accept some aspects of what you place your faith in are wrong.
    The answers to my questions that I got no answer once again for are that the sin of Onan wasn’t what he did, but why he did it. That’s why “the why” was repeated in Gen. 38:6. Plus everyone’s interpretation would conflict with Hebrews 13:4. The ark of the covenant is in heaven. The ark of the covenant and the ark of his testimony are the same thing. The same things happened when they are opened. Jesus only spoke openly to the disciples because they were of the election of grace while everyone else was blinded. Romans 11 explains that. Only to the discples could Jesus explain everything to. That’s how the disciples even knew how to ask Jesus in Matt. 24:3 for the signs of the end of the age (not “world” as is written in the KJV) to begin with. Jesus told them about the ages. This will be the last time I come to this blog and hopefully I won’t be lied about when I leave like Mr. Bouey said I went to his site and said I was a catholic. I definitely hope you aren’t ready for the rapture either. You’ll be here just the same as I will, God willing. Read Ezekial 13:20. Get yourself ready.

  37. Jesse Norman II said

    **Gen. 38:9**

  38. Jessie…

    I guess you’ll leave this thread not answering questions that have been posted to you.

    And to everything else you’ve written here in this thread, I’ve got a few words – Wow…confusing…whatever.

    God help you.

  39. I have looked at the picture’s and it is very frighting! I do believe that JESUS CHRIST talked more on Hell then Heaven to warn everyone that if you don’t turn to JESUS CHRIST that you will end up in hell. The story about how scientice drilled into hell, i heard it wasn’t true but a lot of people came to know the LORD through the story.

  40. Jesse Norman II said

    Forgot all about commenting on this thread, but after looking at the comments I didn’t use the best arguments to prove my point conclusively. If Hell is below our feet and Satan is there, why did God have to ask Satan in the early chapters of Job where he was? If Satan was in a place called Hell inside the Earth, wouldn’t God know where he was? The Antichrist is the rider of the white horse. Halfway through the tribulation he dies, then Satan is kicked down here. Satan is the rider of the pale horse. He is named Death, and Hell will follow him. I do have to scratch my head that you are considered pastors but have no idea about the mistranslations of the King James Bible or what the Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance is. You should check out my wordpress site and see how wise or unwise I am.

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