The Pastor\’s Pen

An Independent Baptist Preacher\’s Musings and Observations

Taking Care of the Body

Posted by Pastor Szekely on July 28, 2006

“But refuse profane and old wives’ fables, and exercise thyself rather unto godliness. For bodily exercise profiteth little: but godliness is profitable unto all things, having promise of the life that now is, and of that which is to come” 1 Tim 4:7-8.

When some talk on caring for the body this text is commonly quoted. Some who oppose exercising (for fear of vanity) will say that “bodily exercise profiteth little”, or that there’s not much advantage to it. Then there are others who will say that “bodily exercise profiteth little”, or that physical exercise does profit for the little time we have on earth.

Now I truly believe from what the Bible says that we ought to be concerned with our physical health and with what we do with our bodies (see 1 Cor 6:19-20; 1 Cor 9:27; Eph 5:29; etc). I also believe that 1 Tim 4:7-8 speaks to the proper maintenance of our body…NOT when it comes to physical exercise, but when it comes to sin. Paul tells Timothy to refuse “profane and old wives’ fables” of the Jewish traditions, for example: Abstinence from certain meats and other acts that passed for mortification and self-denial of the body, yet profited little or turned to little account. Some today may try and mortify their body with traditions and fables, but what good will it do if sin be not mortified? “But godliness is profitable unto all things, having promise of the life that now is, and of that which is to come”.

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9 Responses to “Taking Care of the Body”

  1. Victoria said

    It seems like a lot of King James only people tend to be obese or at the very least overweight.
    Isn’t gluttony a sin also? I don’t know what it is about King James only, Hymns only people, but their “vice” seems to be indulging in food – lots of it. While I do agree with what you wrote about the drinking in the “evangelical” churches, I wondered if anyone else noticed the problem that folks in King James churches have with being overweight and out of shape.

  2. Bro. Szekely said

    Hi Victoria!

    You know as I write this, I’ve been saved almost 18 years, and in all my saved life I’ve been in “King James Only” Independent Baptist Churches…I’ve never studied closely on what you say about “us”, but just sitting here thinking on it, (in my experience) I can remember a spectrum of body sizes in the congregations in which I’ve been a member. I really think you’ve made a general statement that’s not always true…

    Now by your token I can say…If I turn on TBN and as the camera pans out into the audience, I can make a general statement that most Non-King James Only, CCM people are black, overweight women. Now that’s obsurd, isn’t it?

    You are right – gluttony is a sin…not taking care of “God’s temple” (the body) is a sin. Have you ever noticed how when the times of gluttony is mentioned in the Bible it is always connected to intoxicating drink?

    How many “King James Only” churches have you been in? How many have you observed? Most likely in the church where you’re at some have an issue with weight…but I’m just speculating of course…forgive me if I’m wrong.

    Victoria, in the churches in which I’ve been a member and in the church that I now am a member and pastor, I’ll be the first to tell you that we have a long way to go with many things…as you know, salvation is instantaneous, but sanctification is a process…a lifelong process.

    Before I end, Victoria, let me ask you this: If you were to lay down a King James Bible and (let’s say) an New International Version Bible, and if you read the same passage but they said that same passage in a different way, which words would be God’s Word? Did God say the same passage in two different ways? Is every word of God inspired and preserved?

    I don’t know if you read multiple versions or not, but how do you figure out which Bible is truly God’s Word? Are they all God’s Word? And if they are…should you not then read every version to get the full Word of God?

    I know I’ve asked you many questions, Victoria…if you can respond, that would be great. Thank you for visiting and taking the time to respond — I pray to be a help to you.

  3. Victoria said

    Dear Pastor,

    There is a KJV only movement here in Massachusetts. My observation is that there is a generally harsh spirit, a judgmental spirit, a human-rules/ human-authority system of government in those churches. I believe that people who read the KJV Bible as their only Bible are unfortunately missing out on the whole counsel of God. I was once part of a KVV-only church. I was delivered from a great deal of sin from the preaching in that church, and am grateful that God used that ministry to set me free from my sin and my past. The only Bible I had was from my childhood: and it happened to be a KJV Bible. So when the Pastor would talk about other translations having “errors” or not being “inspired”, I was OK with that, only because I didn’t have any other translation. However, I think Pastors who preach that kind of rhetoric are doing a great disservice to the Christian community.

    There are so many tranlations that God has given us to help us understand His character, His nature, His ways, His future for His people and His church. As for me, I read 6 different translations on a regular basis including: KJV, NKJV, NIV, NLT (my favorite for devotions), NRVS, NCV, and sometimes NASB. I do not rely on a single translation to increase my understanding of my Savior. About 4 years ago I had fallen away from the Lord (after only having the KJV Bible in my possession).Sadly, I was choosing a life of sin over a life of submission to God’s Word and God’s Holy Spirit. I ended up as a pile of “human sawdust” after the devastation of my rebellion caught up with me. I had closed my KJV Bible so that I could “comfortably” live my life of sin. But then God answered my call to Him in my desperate hour of need of His grace and mercy. He showed me areas in my life that were displeasing to Him. He asked me to give up a certain relationship with a man that was ungodly, unholy, and reflective of my not trusting Christ to meet my every need. So I took a step of faith – and did what the Lord wanted me to do.

    Now at the same time I was in a secular recovery program (Al Anon) that had a lot of born-again people in it. I remember one night, I laid alone on my couch, wailing and agonizing at the horror of my sin. I didn’t want to go to the meeting. I wanted to “see” God; “smell” Him; “feel” His touch; and “hear” His voice. I felt God’s Spirit saying to my own, “Go to the meeting. I’ll meet with you there.”

    I went to the meeting and in the parking lot was a Christian woman who was waiting for me. She had been in her garden and she felt compelled to pick a rose for me. She also brought me my first non KJV Bible: a NLT Bible, with Life-Recovery commentary.

    That night, when we were saying the opening “prayer”, another Christian woman rubbed my back. So there, through tangible objects and means, God indeed met my desire to “see” and “smell” Him (through the beautiful rose); feel His touch (through that woman touching my back); and “hear” Him (through that NLT Bible).

    I began going to a Bible-believing church and began being reconciled back to God. He opened up the whole counsel of the Word to me through that NLT Bible. I started reading the Old Testament in language that I can understand… (I am highly educated, have 56 credits beyond my Master’s Degree in Mathematics, but still had trouble understanding Shakespearean English). But now I was devouring books like Job, Leviticus, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Isaiah. The Lord began growing me in my faith and in my understanding of His Word faster than I had ever grown before. My husband, whom I had been divorced from, and I reconciled by God’s amazing grace. He and I led a Bible study in our church in Ezra and Nehemiah. We wrote the Bible study ourselves, with the help of the Holy Spirit. I am a teacher and God used my teaching skills to help our congregation rebuild the ministry that had fallen apart due to sin on the part of the leaders.

    I thank God with all my heart for the ways He has revealed Himself to me through the various translations I have. God’s Word literally changed my life. One verse – one single verse – Isaiah 43:25 set me free. “I-yes I alone- am the One who blots out your sins for My own sake, and I will never think of them again.” (NLT) I have a Scripture memory card ministry. I use many, many translations, including the ones I mentioned above, as well as many more. There is no better way of being a help to a friend in need than being able to recite God’s Word to that person. Sometimes the person who is in need is myself, and I counsel myself with the Word of God that He has helped me to memorize.

    In my experience of reading many different translations, I have never found any conflicts in the translations. Translation errors occured even in the KJV Bible (but that doesn’t mean the KJV Bible is not excellent). (For example, the KJV Bible in at least 2 places calls the Holy Spirit “itself” as oppsed to “himself”.) Remember, all the translations were all translated from older manuscripts, including the Textus Receptus, and Alexandrian. Reading many translations has enhanced my understanding of God, and has helped me to grow in my faith.

    I am sorry for the comment about overweight people in the KJV only churches. I guess that more than commenting on your article about bodily exercise, I guess I was really responding to the hurtful KJV only movement, and noticed that the only Bible verses you include in your website are KJV verses.

    You can not believe the damage this movement has caused in my area – to churches and to new Christians. It is sad that a new believer, who may or may not be educated – has to rely on his/her Pastor to understand what God says. I guess that’s just my feeling. And the rules that were imposed on me and others in our KJV only congregation were strange: rules like men having to wear suits to church, women wearing only dresses, women wearing no makeup, etc. Yet in other churches that use modern translations or sing contemporary music, I do see problems that are not present in KJV only churches. Some problems in churches that use modern translations or sing contemporary music include a looseness about sin in general. Also women and girls wearing revealing clothing that causes men to stumble. And a kind of cafeteria-style obedience to the Word of God…. (for example, it isn’t convenient for some people to tithe, and so they don’t… despite what God says about giving the first 10% to the church).

    So it’s a strange problem. I think the KJV only people are confusing their congregation into believing that other translations are not the “inspired” Word of God. Yet who can argue with my testimony of being able to open the whole Word and hear from God? Of course if you read rhetoric from the likes of David Cloud or Jack Chick it’s no wonder why there’s such a hysteria. The hysteria is causing lots of problems in the church: disunity, to name one of the biggest problems in my opinion, and confusion to name another. If I go to a KJV only church, and the Pastor reads the passage in Shakespearean, outdated language, and then explains what the passage is saying in modern English, isn’t that Pastor in effect translating God’s Word? How is that Pastor who “translates” Shakespearean English in to modern English any more qualified than the team of 90 educated scholars who were part of the team that translated the NLT Bible? There is way, way, way too much of a big deal made about the KJV, in my estimation and experience. The rhetoric coming from Cloud and Chick and other pulpits in America is not in any way helping people to know God for themselves through His Word.

    But then again, KJV only churches are doing something right: namely teaching their people to tithe, teaching women to dress modestly, raising children to obey their parents and obey the Lord, inspiring people to memorize Scriptures, evangelizing the lost. Too bad there isn’t some kind of balance.

    That’s my 1.5 cents. I still love the Lord and hope that one day His church will get serious about obeying the Word that they do have. I guess that’s the bottom line.

    Thank you for your website. I know it takes a lot of your time and it is obviously a labor of love.

    In Christ,
    Victoria

  4. Bro. Szekely said

    Dear Victoria,

    Thank you for your “1.5 cents worth”! It blesses my heart and I’m so thankful that there has been reconciliation in your life with the Lord and with your husband.

    It smotes my heart to hear what had happened to you in the KJVO church you attended…I’m not sure if this is the case, but one of the “defects” that I’ve seen in ministry has been this: The pastor tells the congregation, “this is the way”, but he doesn’t go deeper into WHY “this is the way”…I have noticed the “dumbing down” of doctrine by pastors (intentionally or unintentionally) in many churches…like I said, I’m not sure if this was the case in your situation, but this has been my observation as I have gone…I’ll give you a quick example:

    There was a time when my family and I were sent out of our church to help a young missionary family start a new work about 35 miles from our home. We prayed about it, and we thought, “Wow! We can just be a help to a new work and see God do some great and mighty things!” Our “home-church” was excited, and they even “supported” us with gas money…we were thrilled to be in God’s service.

    It wasn’t too long that we were there, that “weird things” were starting…for example, I was in the hospital due to surgery, and the “pastor” told my wife that when I got back, that he was going to talk to me about child discipline…but he wanted to discipline my child, and he wanted me to discipline his child…I won’t tell you how he “disciplined” his child…and beside that, that wasn’t going to happen! It’s my child, and I’ll do the training. He tried to come up with Scripture, but this KJVO Independent Baptist preacher was WRONG! And God forbid that I disagree with him!

    Well, he didn’t touch my child, and after 2 years, we were back in our home-church. I can think back to so many instances where it would be: “Do as I say”, but there’d be little if any “rightly dividing the Word of Truth”…there was much of “dumbing down of doctrine” though. And every time we’d get a visiting family – and that didn’t happen too much! – that “preacher” would do all he could to “preach them right out of the church”…and he was successful every time…and he’d wear that as a “badge of honor”…how sad and hurtful to the cause of Christ.

    I realized at a young age in my Christian walk to seperate the person from the doctrine. There was an Evangelist I loved to listen to and would look forward to his visit every year, but one day I heard he divorced his wife and was working as an Electrician…it broke my heart…but it didn’t change my doctrine. I have a saying through all this that’s helped me: “Opinions are what I hold, but Doctrine is what holds me”.

    Consequently Victoria, many “people in the pew” in my experience probably can’t really tell you why they read the KJV only…and I don’t really like to hear, “Well, because my pastor said so…” I believe you ought to follow your pastor as he follows Christ, but when I hear someone say this, I wonder if it is their conviction or just the pastor’s conviction…if God were to move that pastor, would they still believe what they believe? Is that congregation “strong enough” in the knowledge of the Lord to, for example, ordain a man into the ministry? I don’t see ordination counsels in the Bible, but I see churches ordaining men to go out into ministry. A preacher told me one time that “his people” weren’t “well-versed” enough to ask questions and know a man’s walk with God for ordination…isn’t that a mark against the pastor and his preaching and teaching???

    I’m rambling again, Victoria…sorry! I know you and I aren’t in agreement in doctrine, and as you read, I too have testimonies of some “crazy things” going on in the KJVO churches that I love…please remember this:

    *”The just shall live by faith”…and “Doctrine makes the difference”.

    For all the problems I’ve come across in churches over the years, my faith has been settled in His Word – His Doctrine. Know what you believe, and know why you believe it. Compare Scripture with Scripture and rightly divide the Word of Truth.

    And would you do me a favor, Victoria? Last evening I just put on “References” on the right side of the blog…would you just click on “The New Eye-Opener”…just give it a look and see what you think…I’ll be thankful that you did.

    Victoria, I will pray for you…and I’m thankful for you visiting with me…I really am! ~ may the Lord bless you and yours as you go!

    Because He lives,
    Bro. Szekely

  5. Victoria said

    Dear Pastor,

    Thank you for replying. I clicked on the References section, but I did not take the time to read all the “References”. I sense it is the typical Jack Chick/ David Cloud hysteria/rhetoric. I’ve seen it all before. In my opinion, it is not edifying. It is not helpful in any way to the cause of Christ. The bottom line is that God’s Word (NOT the KJV, necessarily) is what changed my life and made me new. I am very, very sorry for people who are so brainwashed into thinking that KJV is a “doctrine”. Yikes. I would imagine that you and I are actually in agreement on the doctrines presented in Scripture, but God help us if we think that King James is “doctrine”. The fact is that I am getting to know the God of the Bible. The fact is that I am a sinner saved by grace. The fact is that the text that the KJV Bible came from is a later text than the Alexandrian text. Of course there is nothing wrong with the King James Bible. But please listen to reason. There is so much rhetoric almost bordering on superstition out there. I just shake my head at the whole thing. Could it be that you have been deceived? I’m sorry because many people who read only the King James Bible have understanding that is darkened. There are so many things that they will never understand. God’s Word is infallible and perfect. But our language is not, including the “King’s English”. It is not perfect. And also history suggests that King James was a homosexual. But once again, believe it or not, I am not against the King James. I am for the Bible. God’s Word. The Word that sets a person free from their sin, gives a person hope, and helps us to know our Maker, our Savior, the Lover of our soul. The only One who has all the answers.

    I do not go to a KJV only church for reasons I mentioned before. I go to a Bible-believing church in Massachusetts. Our new Pastor happens to read from the King James Bible. But we have recently studied translations and Bible transmissions in our adult Sunday School class. Check out http://www.bible.org for more information.

    I am not a Pentacostal. That, too, is a very hurtful movement. I do want to walk closer with the Lord. I want to share His love with the dying people in my state. This state is so liberal, it would make your stomach turn if you spent any time here. We have commercials on TV (which I rarely watch, by the way) that glorifies homosexual marriages. Yuck. We are living in the last days. Why can’t people read the translation they prefer without passing translational hysteria onto new Christians? And share what they know about the Scriptures with the lost people all around?

    You probably can tell that this issue makes my blood pressure raise. So I guess I will stop here. It is not my intention to offend or to hurt in any way. I hope I didn’t offend you or your readers. I need to pray now for an elderly couple in our church that is having marital problems.

    in Christ who sets the captives free,
    Victoria

  6. Bro. Szekely said

    I can’t speak for anyone else, but Victoria, you haven’t offended me. I know your intention is not to hurt or to offend…your just passionate on what you believe, as am I. What you stand for ought to “raise your blood pressure”…I wish more in our day would take a stand.

    Now I appreciate all that you said, and I am thankful that you clicked on to that “New Eye-Opener”…the main reason why I asked you to look on there was because, as you probably know from studying different translations, it shows differences and omissions among Bible translations.

    Victoria ~ you have been great to converse with…I really mean it…I want to ask you two last questions if you would permit ~ here it goes:
    #1 – Do you believe God’s Word is inspired?
    *What I mean is: Do you believe that God breathed into men His Perfect Word and those holy men of God spake and wrote as they were moved by the Holy Ghost?

    #2 – Do you believe God’s Word is preserved for us today?
    *What I mean is: Do you believe we actually have the very Words of God with us today? Has inspired writ been preserved for us in our generation? Can we read today the preserved Word of God?

    Just think about this…if we don’t have the whole of the inspired, preserved, holy Word of God…could we be missing more of it? I’m not debating antiquity…just because something is older, it doesn’t make it better…but I think you’ll agree that there are subtil differences of text in translations ~ now that concerns me if I believe in an inspired, preserved Word of God.

    I’m sure you know this: KJV NT has been translated from the Textus Receptus (TR, or Received Text), while most other modern translations have their NT founded in the Westcott-Hort text. Now I know that no one today (at least that I know of) has “the originals” of Scripture…so a believer must believe in the doctrine of preservation. God’s inspired Word must have been preserved through the ages…if not, I truly believe that we’re in trouble without the “whole council of God” ~ besides, the Bible proves itself preserved by it’s own words…but that’s not enough for some.

    But my point is this: God’s inspired Word had to be preserved for us today as He promised. Now another question: Was His Word preserved through the Westcott-Hort text, through the Textus Receptus, or through both texts that say different things?

    I have a hard time believing God would take what He inspiried one way and would preserve it being said in different ways. I believe that not only the Thoughts of God were inspired, but also the very Words of God, which make up those thoughts, were inspired and preserved for us today.

    I guess it’s time to “check your BP”, Victoria! I sure don’t mean to raise it if it’s higher, and I do see that it’s a tender issue with you…it is with me, too. I sincerely thank you, though, for reading this and for giving it thought.

    Just thought about this, though…I’m curious about this, and I’ve never asked someone who reads multi-translations: When other “newer” versions of the Bible come out, do you read them as well? How do you distinguish – how do you choose – which version to prefer? You had said, “Why can’t people read the translation they prefer without…” If the choice is up to the individual to choose the version they prefer, how do you distinguish between them?

    I hope you see these as “honest questions”, Victoria…I personally wouldn’t know how to answer them…I look forward to your insight on “all this”…

    Lord bless you ~ Bro. Szekely

  7. Victoria said

    Dear Pastor,

    I will try to answer the questions you asked me. I hope we can end our dialoge by both respecting the other’s translation of choice, and know that you and I serve a living Savior who is the Truth.

    “omissions”: a commonly used KJVO buzz-word. KJVO proponents suggest that there are “omissions” in other, more modern translations. Question: how can they be “omissions” if they are taken from older texts? Does that mean that the ones who copied the text used by the KJV translators (Textus Receptus copyists) were inspired themselves to add to Scripture? Or another whole issue entirely is that some KJVO proponents claim that it was the translation of the KJV Bible that was inspired! I have recently learned that during translation, the TR copyists actually added words and phrases for “effect”, for lack of a better term. Now, even though these copyists “added” to Scripture, that does not mean that they added heresy. In fact, every place that there was an “addition”, it all goes along with themes of Scripture, and nothing contradicts anything else. The TR copysists’ “additions” do not change doctrine in any way, and when more modern translations left these “additions” out, it was to stay truer to the older manuscripts. And further most modern translations include a footnote that indicates that some other manuscripts add “….”.

    “inspired Word” I believe that God’s Word is inspired – all of it – and perfect – all of it – and infallible – and useful for our instruction and edification, from beginning to end. I believe that no man has all the answers, but that God’s Word is where we are to search for His Truth. I believe that the Bible is the single most effective way of knowing God, and reaching others for Christ. I am a Bible-believing Christian and thank the Lord that He has left His perfect, preserved Word for us.

    “preservation”: I believe that God’s Word has been preserved. His promises are pure, and in His Word is a promise which states His Word will endure forever. You know the story of the atheist, Voltaire. Voltaire opposed God and mocked Scripture… Do you know that the house where Voltaire lived became a printing shop where they printed Bibles? God is not mocked…

    Regarding preservation, some KJVO people say that His Word is preserved in the King James language. What about Spanish, French, German, and languages that haven’t even been translated yet? It is not the King James, Shakespearean language that has been preserved, but rather the ancient manuscripts and texts.

    “just because something is older, doesn’t make it better”: Regarding copying, wouldn’t you agree that if a manuscript is older, it would be truer to the original?

    “are we missing any of God’s Word today?” No, we have the full, complete text. God is so good to us. He left us the best thing He could have possibly left us: His very inspired, holy, perfect Word. More Christians need to read it other than Sunday morning, when they “follow along”. More Christians need to dig in and understand who God is for themselves. More Christians need to live it.

    “both texts that say different things”… the texts do not conflict with one another. Some answers neither you nor I will have until we see Jesus face to face. But we will continue to search the Scriptures until then.

    “I have a hard time believing God would take what He inspiried one way and would preserve it being said in different ways. I believe that not only the Thoughts of God were inspired, but also the very Words of God, which make up those thoughts, were inspired and preserved for us today.” My caution would be, Pastor, that you ought never to expound on, or paraphrase for yourself or your congregation, portions of Scripture… because in so doing, you would actually be violating your own principle. For example, never explain or define the words or phrases like “propitiation”, “a dromedary traversing her ways”, etc. Those words ought never to be explained, according to your principle. Because if you do, you have just added to or changed God’s actual, inspired Word. I hope this makes sense. [But that’s ridiculous, of course. Explanation is necessary for teaching and edification. My husband and I use Strong’s concordance. It has been a very helpful tool of understanding the meaning of the words in the Bible. Our language is fallible and can’t always fully capture what God had intended to say. So we look up the Greek or Hebrew word in every place it was used, to get a better sense of the meaning of the word.]

    Regarding Bible translations: there are three methods that all involve taking the original texts (either manuscript)…

    Word for word (literal) translations include KJV, NKJV, NASB, and the 2001 ESV. An advantage of literal translations is fairly obvious: the reader is getting a more accurate transmission of what God intended to say, in the exact order of the original language. The disadvantage of a literal translation, however, is that we don’t speak Greek, Hebrew, or Aramaic. Thus, if we were to translate word for word, the vocabulary and sentence structure can be awkward and difficult to grasp in the receptor language. And the emotive qualities are sometimes sacrificed.

    Thought for thought (dynamic equivalence): too many to list, but some include: RSV, NLT, NIV, NRSV, etc.
    A disadvantage is that you are losing some accuracy, in that groups of words are translated into the receptor language instead of each word for each word. An advantage is that the dynamic equivalency is easier to understand, because the translating team attempted to express and capture the main thoughts and emotions of the passage. Most of these translations are intended for public reading, and devotional reading also.

    Paraphrase: would include the Message, the Living Bible, and others. The biggest advantage is that anyone can understand a paraphrase, including children. I believe the disadvantages outweigh the advantages of paraphrases, in general. Of course, some verses are so well expressed in a paraphrase, that you can’t discount a paraphrase entirely. For example, my life verse is 2 Cor 1:3-5. I had always memorized it in the KJV until I read the Message paraphrase, which reads “All praise to the God and Father of our Master, Jesus the Messiah! Father of all mercy! God of all healing counsel! He comes alongside us when we go through hard times, and before you know it, He brings us alongside someone else who is going through hard times, so that we can be there for that person, just as God was there for us. We have plenty of hard times that come from following the Messiah — but no more so than the good times of His healing comfort — we get a full measure of that, too.”

    how to “choose the version” My husband and I both prefer the NLT. The reasons are many and varied. The wording is emotive, and captures the essence and passion of the God of the Scriptures, in our opinion. But my husband has always read and loved the NKJV. I always read from the KJV. I also lead an evangelical Bible study at the secular college I graduated from and we use the New Century Version (NCV) there. I have found it is good for unchurched, unsaved people to get them thinking about spiritual things. How does one “choose” their translation? I would say that a new Christian would probably use the same translation as the one who has discipled them, whether that’s a more mature Christian in their life, or their Pastor. Once God starts to open up their hearts and minds, they might begin to read different translations. Please, Pastor, understand that I read the Bible – alot! And I have read many translations. If I were ever reading a new translation that had a contradiction or anything questionable in it, I would usually go back to the original language. Or compare multiple versions. If I did not agree with something in a modern translation, I would not read that translation again and counsel others to not read it. For example, there is a new translation that removes the male pronouns from God’s name!!! I would avoid that translation like the plague. I read the translations that reveal God’s nature and ways to me. I read the translations that I find help me understand the historical concepts of the Bible, and the future events. There is a new translation – the English Standard Version – that is literal (word for word). It was translated in 2001. I do not prefer this Bible for a couple of reasons I won’t go into here… But that doesn’t mean that I don’t understand why someone else would prefer that translation. Also, my opinion of both the NASB and the NIV is that they are dry translations which lack passion, and lack emotion. The KJV is better for stirring up one’s heart, in my opinion. But there are no blatant contradictions between the translations. [Although KJVOists saying that modern translations “take out the blood of Jesus” seems to be a popular cry. But the doctrine of the blood of Christ is throughout the various translations in so many passages.] It’s a matter of writing style. For example, the New Living Translation (NLT) says that “to those who are perishing we (Christians) are the fearful smell of death and doom, but to those who are being saved we are a life-giving perfume”. I love that language, don’t you? Isn’t that good imagery of why we are so drawn to Christians, but why the world is so repulsed at us? I read that only once, and it just stuck. I’d have to go back to where it came from …Corinthians??… but the language just stuck with me. And how can that be a bad thing to have the principles presented in Scripture just “stick” with a Christian? KJVO people try to make us who read other translations feel like we might as well be reading the New York Times. But earlier in another email I asked you how can you argue with my testimony? You know that Revelation says that the devil will be defeated by the “blood of the Lamb and the word of their testimony”. Our testimony is one of the most powerful tools we have against the enemy. Again I ask, how do you argue with someone’s testimony?

    How about you, Pastor? Might you consider purchasing or borrowing another translation? I would suggest the New Living Translation. Please read it from cover to cover before making a formal opinion. If you, yourself, a learned man of God, find a contradiction with what you believe Scripture teaches, would you please write me back with what it is? Don’t listen to other men’s hysterical teaching. Read the NLT Bible (or another translation) for yourself. If you find there are contradictions or heresy, I’d close the book right there, after doing some research, never to open that particular translation again. But I myself haven’t found any heresy or contradictions. To the contrary, I have gained an understanding of God and the principles of Scripture – real “doctrine” that I would have never gained had I relied only on the KJV.

    Here’s an interesting question that I pondered just last week: My Pastor wanted me to include in our bulletin (I type the weekly bulletin) the following Scripture as the “Scripture of the Week”: Prov 29:18. Our Pastor prefers the KJV, but I always hesitate if the verse has any “thou”s or “thee”s or “est”s in it. So I went to http://www.crosswalk.com and pulled down many translations for that verse, trying to get a better understanding of the meaning. Here are some typical translational examples of Prov 29:18.

    1. Where there is no vision, the people are unrestrained, But happy is he who keeps the law.

    2. Where there is no prophetic vision the people cast off restraint, but blessed is he who keeps the law.

    3. Where there is no revelation, the people cast off restraint; But happy is he who keeps the law.

    4. Without revelation people run wild, but one who keeps the law will be happy.

    5. Where there is no revelation, the people cast off restraint; but blessed is he who keeps the law.

    6. Where there is no prophecy, the people cast off restraint, but happy are those who keep the law.

    7. Where there is no vision, the people perish: but he that keepeth the law, happy is he.

    8. When people do not accept divine guidance, they run wild. But whoever obeys the law is happy.

    9. Where there is no word from God, people are uncontrolled, but those who obey what they have been taught are happy.

    Now after reading the various translations, which one doesn’t seem to “belong”? I hope you would agree that it would be #7: the KJV. If all I had was the KJV, I would have misunderstood what God was trying to say here, but only because the words “vision” and “perish” mean different things in today’s English language. When you think “vision”, you think of some person’s vision. But in Shakespeare’s time, it referred to God’s vision, namely His Word. And perish has always meant “die” to me. But here, a more accurate rendering would say “throw off restraint”, which is what is happening in our wicked world because people don’t acknowledge the Scriptures or the God whose Word the Scriptures represent. In our society, people are casting off restraint, they are running wild, and in the end, they will perish for it.

    Have I made any sense? Would you accept a NLT Bible if I sent you one through US Mail? Thank you for considering what I had to say. Please, I guess the thing that bothers me the most is that people rely on hysterical superstitious writings from Chick and Cloud without actually reading other translation from cover to cover themselves first.

    I am grateful for your corresponence.

    He lives!
    Victoria

  8. Bro. Szekely said

    G’day Victoria ~ sorry for not replying sooner…I’ve been away from the computer for a while…

    I’m going to try my best to respond as well…but I thank you for your time and patience…

    First of all, I DO NOT believe that the KJV or it’s translators were inspired. I DO believe that God has preserved His inspired Word in the English language through the Authorized (Commonly called the King James Version) Version of the Bible. Also, I don’t like the term “omissions” either…I see “differences” among translations, and that’s what “throws” me…there are differences.

    If other languages will have the Bible (in their language) that Bible CANNOT be translated from the Authorized Version…it must be translated from the Masoretic Text (OT) and from the Textus Receptus (NT) into that language.

    I’ve noticed you said that “if [you] were ever reading a new translation that had a contradiction or anything questionable in it, [you] would usually go back to the original language…Or compare multiple versions”. I find it hard to believe that in all your Bible reading that you’ve never found any differences in how various translations “water down” the Deity of Christ, the Blood, Hell, etc. Victoria, in your NLT…where is Acts 8:37? Why? What does this verse tell us?

    I like what you said on Prov 29:18…I too preach that “vision” is God’s Word…when the prophet had a “vision”, it was a message and word from God…but I figured that out with just a KJV, comparing Scripture with Scripture, a Strong’s Concordance, and let’s not forget…the Holy Spirit who will “guide us into all truth”.

    Thank you for the offer of the NLT, Victoria…but no thanks. I went to “BibleGateway.com” to find out that Acts 8:37 wasn’t in the NLT, so I have access to other translations…but I am totally settled on the AV, and I understand that you differ.

    It’s been great corresponding with you, and I thank you for pouring out what you believe unto me. I’m going to stop with this last post…I’m done, but I pray the Lord bless you and yours in great and mighty ways.

    G’day Victoria, and thanks again!!!
    Bro. Szekely

  9. Victoria said

    Hi Pastor Szekely,

    “Son of God” is, indeed, in the NLT, (written as a reference in Acts 8:37, as the original translators of the TR had included it as an addition). This verse was not in the older manuscript that the NLT was translated from.

    Acts 8:36-38 NLT
    36 As they rode along, they came to some water, and the eunuch said, “Look! There’s some water! Why can’t I be baptized?” F41 37 F143 38 He ordered the carriage to stop, and they went down into the water, and Philip baptized him.

    F41: Some manuscripts add verse 37, “You can,” Philip answered, “if you believe with all your heart.” And the eunuch replied, “I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.”
    F143: Some manuscripts add “You can,” Philip answered, “if you believe with all your heart.” And the eunuch replied, “I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.”

    Also, there are about 80 places in the New Testament (in the NLT) where the phrase “Son of God” occurs in reference to Jesus. So no, the NLT doesn’t leave out the fact that Jesus is the Son of God. I’ve included only a few references below.

    Mt 14:33
    Then the disciples worshiped him. “You really are the Son of God!” they exclaimed.

    Mt 16:16
    Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”

    Mt 27:43
    He trusted God – let God show his approval by delivering him! For he said, ‘I am the Son of God.'”

    Mt 27:54
    The Roman officer and the other soldiers at the crucifixion were terrified by the earthquake and all that had happened. They said, “Truly, this was the Son of God!”

    Mr 1:1
    Here begins the Good News about Jesus the Messiah, the Son of God.

    Lu 1:32
    He will be very great and will be called the Son of the Most High. And the Lord God will give him the throne of his ancestor David.

    Joh 1:34I saw this happen to Jesus, so I testify that he is the Son of God. ”

    Joh 1:49
    Nathanael replied, “Teacher, you are the Son of God – the King of Israel!”

    Joh 5:25
    “And I assure you that the time is coming, in fact it is here, when the dead will hear my voice – the voice of the Son of God. And those who listen will live.

    Ac 9:20
    And immediately he began preaching about Jesus in the synagogues, saying, “He is indeed the Son of God!”

    Ga 2:20
    I myself no longer live, but Christ lives in me. So I live my life in this earthly body by trusting in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.

    Heb 4:14
    That is why we have a great High Priest who has gone to heaven, Jesus the Son of God. Let us cling to him and never stop trusting him.

    —————————————————————————————————————

    And if my Bible, the NLT or any other that I read, left out the Deity of Christ, then (a) I would get rid of that Bible in a hurry and (b) I wouldn’t even call it a Bible. One of the most important things that separates Christianity from false religions is the fact that Jesus is not only the Son of God, but God Himself! Jesus is Lord! Here’s proof that the NLT doesn’t leave the important doctrine of the Deity of Christ out:

    DEITY OF CHRIST
    Heb 1:3
    Th Son reflects God’s own glory, and everything about him represents God exactly. He sustains the universe by the mighty power of his command. After he died to cleanse us from the stain of sin, he sat down in the place of honor at the right hand of the majestic God of heaven.

    Ro 8:39
    Whether we are high above the sky or in the deepest ocean, nothing in all creation will ever be able to separate us from the love of God that is revealed in Christ Jesus our Lord.

    Ro 10:9
    For if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

    1Co 8:6
    But we know that there is only one God, the Father, who created everything, and we exist for him. And there is only one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom God made everything and through whom we have been given life.

    Php 2:11
    and every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

    1Ti 2:5
    For there is only one God and one Mediator who can reconcile God and people. He is the man Christ Jesus.

    Col 3:15-17
    15 Christ is the visible image of the invisible God. He existed before God made anything at all and is supreme over all creation. 16 Christ is the one through whom God created everything in heaven and earth. He made the things we can see and the things we can’t see – kings, kingdoms, rulers, and authorities. Everything has been created through him and for him. 17 He existed before everything else began, and he holds all creation together.

    And without the blood of Christ, there is no remission of sins. We just partook of the Lord’s Supper at our church yesterday. Thank God for his “unspeakable gift” as the King James says. Here’s proof that the NLT doesn’t leave out important verses about the precious blood of the Lamb.

    THE BLOOD AND SACRIFICE OF JESUS IS WHAT CLEANSES SINNERS

    Ro 3:25
    For God sent Jesus to take the punishment for our sins and to satisfy God’s anger against us. We are made right with God when we believe that Jesus shed his blood, sacrificing his life for us. …

    Heb 10:10
    And what God wants is for us to be made holy by the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all time.

    Heb 10:19
    And so, dear brothers and sisters, we can boldly enter heaven’s Most Holy Place because of the blood of Jesus.

    Heb 13:12
    So also Jesus suffered and died outside the city gates in order to make his people holy by shedding his own blood.

    1Jo 5:6
    And Jesus Christ was revealed as God’s Son by his baptism in water and by shedding his blood on the cross – not by water only, but by water and blood. And the Spirit also gives us the testimony that this is true.

    1Jo 1:7
    But if we are living in the light of God’s presence, just as Christ is, then we have fellowship with each other, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, cleanses us from every sin.

    Re 7:14
    And I said to him, “Sir, you are the one who knows.”Then he said to me, “These are the ones coming out of the great tribulation. They washed their robes in the blood of the Lamb and made them white.

    Re 12:11
    And they have defeated him because of the blood of the Lamb and because of their testimony. And they were not afraid to die.

    Finally, Pastor Szekely,
    Could it be that you are wrong about your belief that only the KJV is preserved? Where in the Bible do you get that idea? Hopefully not from Psalm 12:6&7, the passage that other KJVOists use to support their position. Because it is important to go back to verse 5 (comparing Scripture with Scripture, and not taking verses out of context). Also important would be to then go back to the original language to understand whom or what the indefinite pronoun “they” is referring to in verse 7. The “they” in verse 7 refers back to the poor and needy in verse 5. So that would then negate the Psalm 12:6&7 argument to support the viewpoint that the KJV is the Only Preserved Text. (Once again, I will repeat that the Scripures are preserved, and will be preserved forever! Praise the Lord.)

    Also, do you think that I am your sister in Christ? Or am I not your sister because I am not in a KJ V Only, Hymns only church? And for that matter, would you think after all our correspondence that I am saved like you, or am I only saved if I read from the KJV and believe your “doctrine” that the KJV is the only preserved Word?

    Pastor, I daresay that this issue is becoming a thick wall that is dividing the body of Christ, the very body that Christ died for. You and others may be afraid that you are going to be corrupted by liberalism (which by the way, I am not a liberal…in fact, my husband and I despise the whole mentality of liberalism!) We are to be unified in our faith, not divided over preferences. We are to agree of the essentials of the faith, not major on minors. Jesus’ last recorded prayer to the Father was on behalf of the Church. He prayed that we would be one, as He and the Father are one. (John 17:11) The KJV preservation and/or inspiration “doctrine” is clearly dividing the Church. Not only here in Massachusetts, but I can also see it in many other states as well (while the world is going to hell all around us). KJV Onlyism has ravaged churches in the Northeast, rendering the Church useless against the tide of political liberalism that is destroying our society. We in the Northeast have seen firsthand the sad results of Proverbs 29:18, because the “visions” are getting fewer and fewer around here. Consequently, people in the Northeast are indeed “throwing off restraint” and perishing. It isn’t the use of modern translations that is destroying the testimony of the church. It is dusty Bibles, pride in the pulpits, argumentative spirits, Pastors who blink their eye at sin, people loving pleasure more than God and serving self more than Jesus, or some combination of the above. What we need is a real revival. We need to have an urgency and courage to do what Jesus called us to do: evangelize the lost and share the good news of the gospel. Hopefully you and I are in agreement about the doctrine of evangelism.

    I pray that God gives you great wisdom and great sensitivity in leading and shepherding the flock that God has given you.

    It has been my absolute privilege and pleasure to converse with you. I’ve always wanted to express these thoughts to a KJVOnlyist, and up till now I have never had the opportunity. Thank you for the opportunity and thank you that you have been respectful and gentle in your responses to me!

    Your sister in Christ (I hope!)
    Victoria

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